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Vociferous opposition is not the same as condescension, though. There are some people who care deeply about a subject and just lack social tact. They'll jump

Vociferous opposition is not the same as condescension, though. There are some people who care deeply about a subject and just lack social tact. They'll jump on you for a variety of subjects, but they don't have ill intent. Then there are the people who are dicks and want to crush people who they disagree with. It's the point at which one starts displaying schadenfreude and denigrating others that the line has been crossed.

AndrewDucker 16y ago
People who lack social tact need to be taught it. They aren't stupid, generally, they can be taught, if it's made clear that they must. Treating people badly is a great way to drive out those who don't have the ability to deal with flamewars and shoutiness. And many of those people have a lot to contribute.
- wtfffr 16y ago
  People won't learn that when sites are run horribly, as this one is. My first interaction on this site consisted of somebody making a snarky personal attack, which got upvoted. The person apologized via email, but pg refused to remove any of it. Apparently it was important to pg that some snarky, bullshit, personal attack remain present, visible and upvoted, even though both I and the person who made it wanted it gone. So seriously... with leadership like that, how the fuck can anybody expect people to be nice?
- ahoyhere 16y ago
  They should learn it themselves. There are books & training courses on the subject. But people rarely seek these out because they are so defensive about their deficiencies that they turn even those into a contention -- they say "this is just the way I am, take it or leave it."
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    Think of it as evolution in action. (And I shall take this whole post as a call to clean up my act.)
    - nerfhammer 16y ago
      So all we have to do it just wait a few generations, and...
      - mgns 16y ago
        Hopefully just one generation as being an ass may stop them from getting along with the opposite sex and reproduce...
        pyre 16y ago
        On the other hand, that may be the cause instead of a side-effect, at least in a number of cases. (e.g. "You need to get laid, bro")
        cakeface 16y ago
        Unfortunately being an ass is frequently a great way to get laid. Nice guys finish last and all...
        crasshopper 16y ago
        Sure, lots of men ('cause programmers are male, right?) get positive female attention by publicly insulting people who know less about programming and computers. Meanness is always unattractive. Always.
        detst 16y ago
        This is such BS and makes me sigh every time I hear it. It's not being an ass that gets them laid, it's the other characteristics that an asshole typically has that gets them laid. Things like confidence, not coming off desperate and having experience not just approaching a girl but being able to hold a conversation... and the many more things that increase attraction but these are the basics. These characteristics in a nice guy will get him laid more than the asshole and he'll have opportunities with girls that see right through the asshole (and some would say these are the more desirable women).
- shaggyfrog 16y ago
  Have you ever heard the song Your Friend Wil by MC Frontalot, nerd rapper extraordinaire? Your post is basically a perfect two-line summary of the lyrics! http://frontalot.com/index.php/?page=lyrics&lyricid=68 http://frontalot.com/index.php/?page=lyrics&lyricid=68
Alex3917 16y ago
"Then there are the people who are dicks and want to crush people who they disagree with." The problem is that when people start mouthing off about factual issues they don't know anything about they can cause a lot of damage, so crushing them is often a necessity. When you're in a situation where there is a lot of potential for damage and the other person isn't willing to have an intellectually honest debate about the facts then there isn't really much choice but to make them look like a moron.
- nhangen 16y ago
  That comment: "The problem is that when people start mouthing off about factual issues they don't know anything about they can cause a lot of damage, so crushing them is often a necessity." Is exactly the type of thing that comes from the hive mind, and is why it's impossible to be a dissenter. It's usually "you don't know what you are talking about," followed by bashing until the person takes their ball and goes home.
  - ominous_prime 16y ago
    The "hive mind" works both ways though. You can find examples of posts with a correct position being bullied and forced out by a mass of self-confirming, yet incorrect posts. "Geeks", who often can't let inaccurate statements stand unchallenged for fear of it self perpetuating in this manner, will fight back in kind. Public forums are often very democratic, in that the majority wins even when the majority is ill-informed. (I'm not justifying the behavior, just proposing a theory as to why this seems perfectly acceptable to many "geeks")
  - Alex3917 16y ago
    "...bashing until the person takes their ball and goes home." And that's often a good outcome. Consider for example this article published recently by a Connecticut state senator on why she wants to put people in jail for having 'fake weed'. http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/fake-pot-a-new-threat-to-children-and-parents http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/fake-pot-a-new-threat-to... The entire article was riddled with sloppy thinking, and thoroughly plagiarized, so I got all of reddit to utterly destroy her until she deleted all of her comments and wrote a followup stating that the issue was no longer a top priority of hers. I tried to engage her respectfully first, but since she wasn't willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate then going out and fucking up her day seemed like the second best option. Overall I'd consider it a win. Sure it would have been better to get her to change her opinion, but once it becomes clear that no amount of facts or logic her will persuade her then embarrassing her until she shuts the fuck up becomes the best option left on the table.

AndrewDucker 16y ago

People who lack social tact need to be taught it. They aren't stupid, generally, they can be taught, if it's made clear that they must. Treating people badly is a great way to drive out those who don't have the ability to deal with flamewars and shoutiness. And many of those people have a lot to contribute.

wtfffr 16y ago
People won't learn that when sites are run horribly, as this one is. My first interaction on this site consisted of somebody making a snarky personal attack, which got upvoted. The person apologized via email, but pg refused to remove any of it. Apparently it was important to pg that some snarky, bullshit, personal attack remain present, visible and upvoted, even though both I and the person who made it wanted it gone. So seriously... with leadership like that, how the fuck can anybody expect people to be nice?
ahoyhere 16y ago
They should learn it themselves. There are books & training courses on the subject. But people rarely seek these out because they are so defensive about their deficiencies that they turn even those into a contention -- they say "this is just the way I am, take it or leave it."
- stcredzero 16y ago
  Think of it as evolution in action. (And I shall take this whole post as a call to clean up my act.)
  - nerfhammer 16y ago
    So all we have to do it just wait a few generations, and...
    - mgns 16y ago
      Hopefully just one generation as being an ass may stop them from getting along with the opposite sex and reproduce...
      - pyre 16y ago
        On the other hand, that may be the cause instead of a side-effect, at least in a number of cases. (e.g. "You need to get laid, bro")
      - cakeface 16y ago
        Unfortunately being an ass is frequently a great way to get laid. Nice guys finish last and all...
        crasshopper 16y ago
        Sure, lots of men ('cause programmers are male, right?) get positive female attention by publicly insulting people who know less about programming and computers. Meanness is always unattractive. Always.
        detst 16y ago
        This is such BS and makes me sigh every time I hear it. It's not being an ass that gets them laid, it's the other characteristics that an asshole typically has that gets them laid. Things like confidence, not coming off desperate and having experience not just approaching a girl but being able to hold a conversation... and the many more things that increase attraction but these are the basics. These characteristics in a nice guy will get him laid more than the asshole and he'll have opportunities with girls that see right through the asshole (and some would say these are the more desirable women).
shaggyfrog 16y ago
Have you ever heard the song Your Friend Wil by MC Frontalot, nerd rapper extraordinaire? Your post is basically a perfect two-line summary of the lyrics! http://frontalot.com/index.php/?page=lyrics&lyricid=68 http://frontalot.com/index.php/?page=lyrics&lyricid=68

Alex3917 16y ago

"Then there are the people who are dicks and want to crush people who they disagree with." The problem is that when people start mouthing off about factual issues they don't know anything about they can cause a lot of damage, so crushing them is often a necessity. When you're in a situation where there is a lot of potential for damage and the other person isn't willing to have an intellectually honest debate about the facts then there isn't really much choice but to make them look like a moron.

nhangen 16y ago
That comment: "The problem is that when people start mouthing off about factual issues they don't know anything about they can cause a lot of damage, so crushing them is often a necessity." Is exactly the type of thing that comes from the hive mind, and is why it's impossible to be a dissenter. It's usually "you don't know what you are talking about," followed by bashing until the person takes their ball and goes home.
- ominous_prime 16y ago
  The "hive mind" works both ways though. You can find examples of posts with a correct position being bullied and forced out by a mass of self-confirming, yet incorrect posts. "Geeks", who often can't let inaccurate statements stand unchallenged for fear of it self perpetuating in this manner, will fight back in kind. Public forums are often very democratic, in that the majority wins even when the majority is ill-informed. (I'm not justifying the behavior, just proposing a theory as to why this seems perfectly acceptable to many "geeks")
- Alex3917 16y ago
  "...bashing until the person takes their ball and goes home." And that's often a good outcome. Consider for example this article published recently by a Connecticut state senator on why she wants to put people in jail for having 'fake weed'. http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/fake-pot-a-new-threat-to-children-and-parents http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/fake-pot-a-new-threat-to... The entire article was riddled with sloppy thinking, and thoroughly plagiarized, so I got all of reddit to utterly destroy her until she deleted all of her comments and wrote a followup stating that the issue was no longer a top priority of hers. I tried to engage her respectfully first, but since she wasn't willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate then going out and fucking up her day seemed like the second best option. Overall I'd consider it a win. Sure it would have been better to get her to change her opinion, but once it becomes clear that no amount of facts or logic her will persuade her then embarrassing her until she shuts the fuck up becomes the best option left on the table.