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And yet Slack and Spotify are some of the most used apps. I wonder if most end users just don’t care about resource usage, as long as they can comfortably run a

And yet Slack and Spotify are some of the most used apps. I wonder if most end users just don’t care about resource usage, as long as they can comfortably run all their apps, why should they?

saagarjha 6y ago
Slack and Spotify tend to have a fair amount of lock-in.
- woutr_be 6y ago
  Perhaps, but making the assumption end users care about resource consumption seems a bit silly. Most of these apps run perfectly fine, sure they use a bit more resources than their native counterpart. But even for a technical person like myself, I barely notice it. So I’m not sure this arguments outweighs the cost of having to maintain different native apps.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I am actually quite annoyed by this specific points, because I am sure users would certainly mind if someone told them that Slack and Spotify were taking two hours off of their battery life, and they'd certainly want something better than that if possible. The developers of Electron apps are largely shielded from outrage by user ignorance, and users blame their computer or themselves instead.
    - woutr_be 6y ago
      Would they really? Or would it be the same outrage as when people realised Google is selling their data, or when Facebook is monitoring every move they make? What I'm getting to is; if people wanted something better, something better would've come along already. Most developers are shielded by user ignorance, if users knew what happens behind the scenes at most banks, they wouldn't want to bank with them anymore. Same goes for almost every software system.
  - mercer 6y ago
    My experience is that as a technical person with a beefy computer, I am mostly frustrated by the knowledge of how much of a waste these apps are, and how much faster they could start/run on my devices. But a lot of my non-technical friends, many of them with much cheaper computers, definitely grumble about Slack and the like. The difference is much more noticeable on their hardware, and anyone I know who can get away with it prefers to use WhatsApp or, in some cases, Telegram. Lock-in definitely plays a big role. If you already need to keep Slack open for your employer, you might as well use it for other things, for example.
    - woutr_be 6y ago
      > My experience is that as a technical person with a beefy computer, I am mostly frustrated by the knowledge of how much of a waste these apps are, and how much faster they could start/run on my devices. I understand this point, and I definitely agree. But I'm also of the opinion that some of these companies wouldn't be as popular if they tried to build native apps from the start. They wouldn't be able to move so quickly, and would be restrained by money and resources. Of course, once you grow (Slack & Spotify) you should invest in making the experience as painless as possible.
      - mercer 6y ago
        Maybe. I used to assume as much, and as a solo developer I think there's a good chance I would pick a non-native solution when necessary. However, not only am I starting to doubt this, I think it's even less of an issue for a startup that can afford at least a handful of developers. First off, the few projects I've done with 'web tech' that had to be native-ish (cordova, so web apps as 'proper' apps on your phone) have made me more skeptical. Sure, at first it was nice to be able to build things using a stack I was mostly familiar with. But not properly knowing the development and build tools for Android/iOS made me extremely uncomfortable. And if I'd bother mastering those, I might as well go for native. Having to jump through various hoops to get something that felt as native as possible was difficult too. And finally so many things were not part of my 'web developer toolset' anyways that I might as well have learned the native approach (notifications, any other integrations with the OS that web doesn't offer or doesn't offer on the major platforms). I mostly came away from that experience wondering if the main reason why we do these things is a (somewhat) unreasonable fear of learning a new tech stack. I can totally see the use case for Electron and Cordova and RubyMotion and so on. But for a sufficiently experienced developer it might already be preferable to just learn iOS and/or Android development, and for a company that can afford a handful of developers getting one of each, at first, should be doable. But again, I could be wrong and it's just a growing feeling. Maybe I'm underestimating the amount of work needed to do native development. I haven't had the time to properly do so yet...
gruez 6y ago
>I wonder if most end users just don’t care about resource usage, as long as they can comfortably run all their apps, why should they? It's death by a thousand cuts. You're probably not going to switch your MBP from 8GB to 16GB because of spotify/slack alone, but if you have four electron apps using 500MB each, you're missing a quarter of your memory. That may very well push you to get the option 16GB (+$100).
ahofmann 6y ago
I hate electron apps so much that I only use Spotify on my smartphone. My computer is not old or weak. But when Spotify is open, it feels like this. Our boss uses Slack. He must be communicating with me through another chat program. But it's true, he obviously doesn't care about the performance of his computer. Why should he, it's not his job to think about such things.

And yet Slack and Spotify are some of the most used apps. I wonder if most end users just don’t care about resource usage, as long as they can comfortably run all their apps, why should they?

saagarjha 6y ago

Slack and Spotify tend to have a fair amount of lock-in.

woutr_be 6y ago
Perhaps, but making the assumption end users care about resource consumption seems a bit silly. Most of these apps run perfectly fine, sure they use a bit more resources than their native counterpart. But even for a technical person like myself, I barely notice it. So I’m not sure this arguments outweighs the cost of having to maintain different native apps.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I am actually quite annoyed by this specific points, because I am sure users would certainly mind if someone told them that Slack and Spotify were taking two hours off of their battery life, and they'd certainly want something better than that if possible. The developers of Electron apps are largely shielded from outrage by user ignorance, and users blame their computer or themselves instead.
  - woutr_be 6y ago
    Would they really? Or would it be the same outrage as when people realised Google is selling their data, or when Facebook is monitoring every move they make? What I'm getting to is; if people wanted something better, something better would've come along already. Most developers are shielded by user ignorance, if users knew what happens behind the scenes at most banks, they wouldn't want to bank with them anymore. Same goes for almost every software system.
- mercer 6y ago
  My experience is that as a technical person with a beefy computer, I am mostly frustrated by the knowledge of how much of a waste these apps are, and how much faster they could start/run on my devices. But a lot of my non-technical friends, many of them with much cheaper computers, definitely grumble about Slack and the like. The difference is much more noticeable on their hardware, and anyone I know who can get away with it prefers to use WhatsApp or, in some cases, Telegram. Lock-in definitely plays a big role. If you already need to keep Slack open for your employer, you might as well use it for other things, for example.
  - woutr_be 6y ago
    > My experience is that as a technical person with a beefy computer, I am mostly frustrated by the knowledge of how much of a waste these apps are, and how much faster they could start/run on my devices. I understand this point, and I definitely agree. But I'm also of the opinion that some of these companies wouldn't be as popular if they tried to build native apps from the start. They wouldn't be able to move so quickly, and would be restrained by money and resources. Of course, once you grow (Slack & Spotify) you should invest in making the experience as painless as possible.
    - mercer 6y ago
      Maybe. I used to assume as much, and as a solo developer I think there's a good chance I would pick a non-native solution when necessary. However, not only am I starting to doubt this, I think it's even less of an issue for a startup that can afford at least a handful of developers. First off, the few projects I've done with 'web tech' that had to be native-ish (cordova, so web apps as 'proper' apps on your phone) have made me more skeptical. Sure, at first it was nice to be able to build things using a stack I was mostly familiar with. But not properly knowing the development and build tools for Android/iOS made me extremely uncomfortable. And if I'd bother mastering those, I might as well go for native. Having to jump through various hoops to get something that felt as native as possible was difficult too. And finally so many things were not part of my 'web developer toolset' anyways that I might as well have learned the native approach (notifications, any other integrations with the OS that web doesn't offer or doesn't offer on the major platforms). I mostly came away from that experience wondering if the main reason why we do these things is a (somewhat) unreasonable fear of learning a new tech stack. I can totally see the use case for Electron and Cordova and RubyMotion and so on. But for a sufficiently experienced developer it might already be preferable to just learn iOS and/or Android development, and for a company that can afford a handful of developers getting one of each, at first, should be doable. But again, I could be wrong and it's just a growing feeling. Maybe I'm underestimating the amount of work needed to do native development. I haven't had the time to properly do so yet...

gruez 6y ago

>I wonder if most end users just don’t care about resource usage, as long as they can comfortably run all their apps, why should they? It's death by a thousand cuts. You're probably not going to switch your MBP from 8GB to 16GB because of spotify/slack alone, but if you have four electron apps using 500MB each, you're missing a quarter of your memory. That may very well push you to get the option 16GB (+$100).

ahofmann 6y ago

I hate electron apps so much that I only use Spotify on my smartphone. My computer is not old or weak. But when Spotify is open, it feels like this. Our boss uses Slack. He must be communicating with me through another chat program. But it's true, he obviously doesn't care about the performance of his computer. Why should he, it's not his job to think about such things.