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>"... use directly to provide that service": this falls under contract law, not copyright law. Licenses fall under copyright law, not contract law. Licenses dic
by Gollapalli 6y ago
>"... use directly to provide that service": this falls under contract law, not copyright law. Licenses fall under copyright law, not contract law. Licenses dictating terms beyond the scope of the copyrighted work, which is what the SSPL does, is copyright abuse and legally invalid. Copyleft licenses, including the GPL family, work strictly within copyright law; the terms they dictate apply only to the copyrighted work. Yes, derivatives of copyrighted work fall under the same copyright. No, "... use directly to provide that service" does not qualify as derivative work and thus does not fall under the copyright of the original work.
I think that there's some room here.
The links that you gave had two examples, the Lasercomb case and the Sandisk case. The SSPL isn't like either of those.
From your first link:
> For example, in Lasercomb, the license agreement required the licensee to
> agree not to develop a competitive computer-aided design program for 99
> years. Lasercomb America v. Reynolds. 911 F.2d 970, 15 USPQ2d 1846 (4th
> Cir. 1990). In Practice Management Information Corp. v. American Medical
> Ass'n 121 F.3d 516 (9th Cir. 1997) the AMA licensed “CPT” health care
> codes (in which the AMA claimed a copyright) on a condition that the
> licensee not use any other such competing codes. In Assessment
> Technologies v. WIREdata. 350 F.3d 640 (7th Cir. 2003), the copyright
> holder tried to limit the licensee’s access to the licensee’s own data
> stored using the software. This defense is almost always applied to
> prevent a copyright holder from leveraging its copyright to impose
> anti-competitive practices.
In other words, what we're looking at here is, "Now that you have accepted our license terms, you can't build a competing software, with no out" What the SSPL says (paraphrasing) is "If you can't offer our product as SaSS on an SSPL stack, then you can't offer it (see 12. No Surrender of Others Freedom)." It doesn't say, "by using our software, you are not allowed to build a competing product."
Let's look at SanDisk:
>SanDisk had a patent licensing program that
required any licensee to provide a grant-back license to any
subsequently-developed patents in the same field of use. Two courts
examined SanDisk's program under both the antitrust and patent misuse
angles.
In other words, SanDisk said, "if you use our license, we can use anything else in this space that you license." MongoDB is not saying, "now that you have licensed Mongo, you MUST SSPL regardless of whether you are currently using Mongo." Again, point 12 comes into play here. You are allowed to simply /not/ use Mongo. You have an out. The requirement of having a stack under SSPL or compatible license is a precondition for being allowed to provide Mongo as a service, not a limitation of what you can do after the fact. In other words, if the company sued over SSPL can't or won't release their stack, then they just can't provide Mongo as a service. That is, I think an enforceable outcome within the bounds of copyright: "if you do X, you can't use our copyrighted material." Thus I think your point of the SSPL being unenforceable is incorrect. Of course, this is interpretation, IANAL, and we won't truly know the result of this until it hits a court.
>This is not how open source licenses work — open source licenses do not confer ownership of copyright by mere usage — so I don't know what your point is.
You've misunderstood me. I mean that providers lose the ability to use closed source code in the providing of the service. The statement you were quoting was said with the presumption that "you" (in the general sense) were the provider of the service, who also owned the copyright to said closed source code used to provide said service, and that the thing lost was the ability to keep that software closed-source.
>SSPL is not an open-source license
What, because some committee says it isn't? Very well, open-source in the colloquial sense, as in "I can read the source code, modify it, and run it if I wish."
- pritambaral 6y agoYou seem to be misinterpreting legal terms again: > Now that you have accepted our license terms ... > "now that you have licensed ... That is not how licenses work. Licenses cannot be forced on either party, nor can they force terms after being granted; that'd be extortion. Neither Lasercomb nor SanDisk forced their licenses or subsequent terms on their licensees, nor am I alleging (as you seem to paraphrase) that Mongo does. The misunderstanding you seem to have is that a license term such as "If you agree to this license, you MUST ..." can be interpreted as "Now that you have accepted this license, you MUST ...". It can't. All three of Lasercomb, SanDisk, and MongoDB's SSPL use the former and not the latter. > You are allowed to simply /not/ use Mongo. You have an out. As did the licensees of Lasercomb and SanDisk to simply not use the respective licensed works. That did not stop those two licensors from being in legal jeopardy, and from their licenses being invalid. And when a license is invalid, _any and all_ use of the copyrighted work under that license becomes copyright infringement. > then they just can't provide Mongo as a service. And here you introduce another kernel of the problem with the SSPL. It does not define what a "Service" is, leaving it vague and so open to interpretation, that MongoDB Inc. can change their mind later and sue even users not providing MongoDB-as-a-service. This inability (or omission) of the license to answer the question "What is a service" leaves me as a potential user in a very gray area. This has all been discussed many times over [0]. The only safe play is to not use the copyrighted work at all. Which leaves, as I say above, "the only legally safe way to use MongoDB is to pay MongoDB Inc. to host it." > You've misunderstood me. I mean that providers lose the ability to use closed source code in the providing of the service. The statement you were quoting was said with the presumption that "you" (in the general sense) were the provider of the service, who also owned the copyright to said closed source code used to provide said service, and that the thing lost was the ability to keep that software closed-source. You said, "The only “safety” you lose is that of owning the copyright to closed source software". One (owning the copyright) has nothing to do with the other (keeping the software closed-source), so I don't know why you would include the former if all you wanted to say was the latter. > What, because some committee says it isn't? No, because it does not meet the industry-accepted definition. > open-source in the colloquial sense, as in "I can read the source code, modify it, and run it if I wish." 1. You can't just "run it if I wish" as you please; and 2. That is NOT the definition of open-source; that is the definition of shared-source, or source-available. If MongoDB wanted to make their source available under those terms, they should have, instead of trying to abuse the term 'open source'. If you want to use a piece of software under shared-source terms, feel free, but please don't try to jam it to others as if that's open source, because such twisting of terms harms the industry. ---- 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18301116 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18301116