5 ms·

>We NEED enforcement of the new rules(6ft, masks) because they're not being followed where I'm at. How should those things be enforced in your opinion?

by blhack 6y ago

arrosenberg 6y ago
With fines and jail time if necessary. OSHA can enforce in the workplace - it's quite literally their purview.
- hayez1 6y ago
  Coronavirus has killed less people than the flu does in a year. You are living in hysteria. Wake up and look at what you are suggesting.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    You might want to check your sources on that.
  - throwaway55554 6y ago
    Citation?
  - thomaslord 6y ago
    Deaths reported as COVID-19 in the US so far: 90,263 Deaths due to flu during the 2018-2019 flu season: 34,157 Deaths due to flu during the 2017-2018 flu season: 61,000 So with a particularly deadly flu season in 2017-2018, COVID-19 has already killed nearly as many people as 2 flu seasons combined. There are also a lot of deaths that are likely caused by COVID-19 but haven't been attributed properly, for any number of reasons including not wanting to waste tests on people who are already dead. You can find a nice graphic here that expresses this phenomenon nicely using seasonal averages: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/cov...
  - zeku 6y ago
    I don't understand why people are believing this literal fake news, you can look at your state's official stats to see it's not true...
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    The stages of grief start with denial. Not gotten very far, have we?
zeku 6y ago
I was thinking about this. The easiest way would be to hire inspectors to go around and inspect places during business hours and close them down if they're not in compliance. That or a federal jobs program of "safety enforcer" paid for by the fed and placed in every business of X size or whatever. The former seems more likely.
- hayez1 6y ago
  >The easiest way would be to hire inspectors to go around and inspect places during business hours and close them down if they're not in compliance. Literal tyranny for something that has killed far less people than the flu kills in a year. (Up to 650 000 btw.) Should we start mandating these lockdowns for the flu as well? We are living in a time of mass hysteria that has been fuelled by the media and governments.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    CDC: In the US, the flu has killed 12,000-61,000 per year over the last decade. According to the worldometer page, COVID19 has killed 91,000. Since January. WHO: (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(seasonal) https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(...) Worldwide, flu causes 290,000 to 650,000 respiratory deaths. Worldometer reports 316,000 COVID19 deaths. Since January. And I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that is off on the low side. But it's still early.
    - Izkata 6y ago
      > According to the worldometer page, COVID19 has killed 91,000. Since January. Not quite. The first death in the US was Feb 29. On March 31, it was only 5151. So ~91k deaths over 2.5 months, or ~86k deaths over 1.5 months. (...I'd probably go with the first just to encompass infection time)
  - zeku 6y ago
    If you're going to spout nonsense that runs counter to the government's official tally, at least cite your source.
nostromo 6y ago
And how would one pay for it? California and Washington are both running massive deficits due to their harsh quarantine measures and will literally be out of money in a few months. Many cities are already running out of money. Seattle, San Francisco, LA, NYC... all are heading towards bankruptcy or massive layoffs. Many cops and teachers are about to be laid off. Prisons will be releasing prisoners to make budgets meet. And here people are talking about a whole new squad of police that do nothing but enforce distancing and mask-wearing. With what money? https://www.usmayors.org/2020/04/14/cities-report-pandemic-creating-painful-budget-shortfalls-may-force-furloughs-and-layoffs/ https://www.usmayors.org/2020/04/14/cities-report-pandemic-c... https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-cities-face-grim-financial-outlook-amid-15259394.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-cities-... https://www.dailybreeze.com/2020/05/12/coronavirus-la-cities-face-severe-revenue-shortages/ https://www.dailybreeze.com/2020/05/12/coronavirus-la-cities...
- wwweston 6y ago
  > And how would one pay for it? This is like the old line about education ("if you think it's expensive, try ignorance"). There isn't any such thing as "ending lockdown" without certain cooperative measures. Either we'll take the necessary collective steps to control spread and coordinate recovery behavior... or we won't, and we'll have both the uncontrolled spread and the second order uncoordinated responses including large portions of people sitting out economic participation in order to manage personal risk. Maybe it'll take some kind of civil enforcement to do this. Maybe most people will cooperate. Maybe the federal government will lend local governments money to help. Or it won't, or it will, but will come with stipulations designed to weaken the ability of local institutions to act counter to partisan ends of those in control of the Senate and executive. But anyone on team "end lockdown" should hope there is cooperation, and enough enforcement to encourage it at the margins. And if funding is a problem, then private and public entities alike at least in theory have some incentive to come up with a way to solve the problems that need to be solved to support higher levels of activity.
throwaway55554 6y ago
It might get tricky when you have home grown terrorists walking around with long guns shouting that it violates some right they think they have to not wear them.
- mnm1 6y ago
  Cops love shooting people in the US. Now they can pursue their passion.

>We NEED enforcement of the new rules(6ft, masks) because they're not being followed where I'm at. How should those things be enforced in your opinion?

by blhack 6y ago

>We NEED enforcement of the new rules(6ft, masks) because they're not being followed where I'm at. How should those things be enforced in your opinion?

arrosenberg 6y ago

With fines and jail time if necessary. OSHA can enforce in the workplace - it's quite literally their purview.

hayez1 6y ago
Coronavirus has killed less people than the flu does in a year. You are living in hysteria. Wake up and look at what you are suggesting.
- mcguire 6y ago
  You might want to check your sources on that.
- throwaway55554 6y ago
  Citation?
- thomaslord 6y ago
  Deaths reported as COVID-19 in the US so far: 90,263 Deaths due to flu during the 2018-2019 flu season: 34,157 Deaths due to flu during the 2017-2018 flu season: 61,000 So with a particularly deadly flu season in 2017-2018, COVID-19 has already killed nearly as many people as 2 flu seasons combined. There are also a lot of deaths that are likely caused by COVID-19 but haven't been attributed properly, for any number of reasons including not wanting to waste tests on people who are already dead. You can find a nice graphic here that expresses this phenomenon nicely using seasonal averages: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/cov...
- zeku 6y ago
  I don't understand why people are believing this literal fake news, you can look at your state's official stats to see it's not true...
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  The stages of grief start with denial. Not gotten very far, have we?

zeku 6y ago

I was thinking about this. The easiest way would be to hire inspectors to go around and inspect places during business hours and close them down if they're not in compliance. That or a federal jobs program of "safety enforcer" paid for by the fed and placed in every business of X size or whatever. The former seems more likely.

hayez1 6y ago
>The easiest way would be to hire inspectors to go around and inspect places during business hours and close them down if they're not in compliance. Literal tyranny for something that has killed far less people than the flu kills in a year. (Up to 650 000 btw.) Should we start mandating these lockdowns for the flu as well? We are living in a time of mass hysteria that has been fuelled by the media and governments.
- mcguire 6y ago
  CDC: In the US, the flu has killed 12,000-61,000 per year over the last decade. According to the worldometer page, COVID19 has killed 91,000. Since January. WHO: (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(seasonal) https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(...) Worldwide, flu causes 290,000 to 650,000 respiratory deaths. Worldometer reports 316,000 COVID19 deaths. Since January. And I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that is off on the low side. But it's still early.
  - Izkata 6y ago
    > According to the worldometer page, COVID19 has killed 91,000. Since January. Not quite. The first death in the US was Feb 29. On March 31, it was only 5151. So ~91k deaths over 2.5 months, or ~86k deaths over 1.5 months. (...I'd probably go with the first just to encompass infection time)
- zeku 6y ago
  If you're going to spout nonsense that runs counter to the government's official tally, at least cite your source.

nostromo 6y ago

And how would one pay for it? California and Washington are both running massive deficits due to their harsh quarantine measures and will literally be out of money in a few months. Many cities are already running out of money. Seattle, San Francisco, LA, NYC... all are heading towards bankruptcy or massive layoffs. Many cops and teachers are about to be laid off. Prisons will be releasing prisoners to make budgets meet. And here people are talking about a whole new squad of police that do nothing but enforce distancing and mask-wearing. With what money? https://www.usmayors.org/2020/04/14/cities-report-pandemic-creating-painful-budget-shortfalls-may-force-furloughs-and-layoffs/ https://www.usmayors.org/2020/04/14/cities-report-pandemic-c... https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-cities-face-grim-financial-outlook-amid-15259394.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-cities-... https://www.dailybreeze.com/2020/05/12/coronavirus-la-cities-face-severe-revenue-shortages/ https://www.dailybreeze.com/2020/05/12/coronavirus-la-cities...

wwweston 6y ago
> And how would one pay for it? This is like the old line about education ("if you think it's expensive, try ignorance"). There isn't any such thing as "ending lockdown" without certain cooperative measures. Either we'll take the necessary collective steps to control spread and coordinate recovery behavior... or we won't, and we'll have both the uncontrolled spread and the second order uncoordinated responses including large portions of people sitting out economic participation in order to manage personal risk. Maybe it'll take some kind of civil enforcement to do this. Maybe most people will cooperate. Maybe the federal government will lend local governments money to help. Or it won't, or it will, but will come with stipulations designed to weaken the ability of local institutions to act counter to partisan ends of those in control of the Senate and executive. But anyone on team "end lockdown" should hope there is cooperation, and enough enforcement to encourage it at the margins. And if funding is a problem, then private and public entities alike at least in theory have some incentive to come up with a way to solve the problems that need to be solved to support higher levels of activity.

throwaway55554 6y ago

It might get tricky when you have home grown terrorists walking around with long guns shouting that it violates some right they think they have to not wear them.

mnm1 6y ago
Cops love shooting people in the US. Now they can pursue their passion.