6 ms·

I would suggest to just install OpenBSD and try it (maybe in a VM?), one of the selling points is the simplicity of the setup process. It can be a one evening p

I would suggest to just install OpenBSD and try it (maybe in a VM?), one of the selling points is the simplicity of the setup process. It can be a one evening project.

erk__ 6y ago
I recently went and installed FreeBSD on my laptop. It has until now been a pretty good experiance. The main reason I went with FreeBSD over OpenBSD at the moment was that NVIDIA only supports FreeBSD. FreeBSD is also pretty simple (at least compared to linux) so it wins there as well.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  By NVIDIA supporting FreeBSD you mean that half-assed thing with binary drivers allowing you to get a picture, but no CUDA? Or is that old information which i should forget?
  - magic_quotes 6y ago
    Unfortunately, half-assed vendor support is still quite compelling compared to no vendor support.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      It depends on your use-case, i guess. If my intent would be using FreeBSD as my daily-driver "desktop/laptop-OS" i'd avoid NVIDIA like the plague, becaue without CUDA their unique selling point does not exist, but the hassle of some "switcheroo-black-magic" possibly persists. Which i wouldn't have with an intel-gpu, also less power draw. Even AMD is often supported in a better way, be it opensourced, or relying on their binary blob.
      - magic_quotes 6y ago
        > Even AMD is often supported in a better way, be it opensourced, or relying on their binary blob. AMD binary blob? You mean that amdgpu-pro thing? That doesn't exist on FreeBSD.
        LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        Maybe not the latest and greatest "Pro", but otherwise? https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics/AMD-GPU-Matrix https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics/AMD-GPU-Matrix edit: maybe should have added https://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/#index5h2 https://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/#index5h2 too
  - loeg 6y ago
    Sure, the factual parts of that are accurate. Your opinion colors some of the adjectives. OpenGL works well, for example. No CUDA, no NVENC/DEC.
    - erk__ 6y ago
      Well it is a bit of a grey zone but I have gotten Vulkan to work and I think at least NVENC works as well. The solution is rather hacky though. It extracts libraries from the Linux driver and loads them when you run programs. A look at the code make it seems like cuda is getting loaded as well so it may work. https://github.com/shkhln/nvshim https://github.com/shkhln/nvshim
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        While i respectfully congratulate the authors of that shim for their ingenuity, that is no support.
        chupasaurus 6y ago
        Nothing drastically changed since Torvalds had sended his gratitude[0]. [0] https://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=2997 https://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=2997 (time coded)
        LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        I concur.
        chupasaurus 6y ago
        Wayland support fiasco, changes in driver's EULA to deny the usage of consumer-grade GPUs in VMs are 2 things off the top of my head.
        floatboth 6y ago
dEnigma 6y ago
A selling point in comparison to what? A "one evening project" installation doesn't seem to be all that amazing by any standard, in my opinion.
- greggyb 6y ago
  I think that the parent is saying that "trying OpenBSD" is a "one evening project". The installation should be complete within just a couple minutes.
  - int_19h 6y ago
    I don't see how one could try OpenBSD, and derive any conclusions other than, "oh great, yet another Unix", in a single evening.
    - hedora 6y ago
      To get it working at all, you have to find the manual. Once you find the manual, you’ll realize it’s well-documented and simple, and that simply using it has great educational value. If those things don’t appeal to you, it’s probably not the OS for you. It takes about an evening to figure this out, in my experience.
      - hackmiester 6y ago
        But those things apply to Linux distributions too, e.g., Debian.
        wilsonthewhale 6y ago
        Having experienced both operating systems, Debian gets nowhere close. The Debian wiki is full of outdated articles. OpenBSD's manual pages and online FAQ combined have never failed to answer a question I've had about the base system. It's really that good. The ArchWiki is close behind in usefulness, but that's maintained by its community and article quality varies.
thisrod 6y ago
> maybe in a VM? But that's the thing. The real benefits from OpenBSD come when it's the only system you need. Who cares how simple and elegant the guest system is, if you need to maintain a linux installation to host it? A project on the scale of OpenBSD can't possibly support all the hardware that's out there. And the system is under active development, so there are constant regressions in hardware support. That's fine for John Carmack: he can fire up ed and fix a kernel panic, that's how he winds down after work. But the vision that attracts me to OpenBSD is a box in a closet that Google doesn't have the key to, which sits there for 6 months receiving my email and serving my homepage, takes 10 minutes to update, then sits there for the next 6 months; maybe once every 5 years I'd need to read a manpage and port my smtpd.conf to a new syntax. Hardware regressions are what stop that from happening. The OpenBSD developers are getting what they want, and good luck to them. The shame is that a little bit of coordination, where they chose one model of ThinkPad every other year and committed to supporting it for a decade, would make the system so much more useful for so many other people.
- hedora 6y ago
  > box in a closet https://github.com/elad/openbsd-apu2 https://github.com/elad/openbsd-apu2 Mine is 4(?) years old, and has never crashed. I use it every day. If you want something newer, or have 10x the power budget: https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/ryzen-build-for-openbsd https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/ryzen-build-for-openbsd
  - busterarm 6y ago
    Yeah it generally works pretty happily with most hardware in modern X/T Thinkpads. Happily running it on my X270. It's missing the 802.11ac and Bluetooth support but I'll live. I bought a BT-W2 so that my Bluetooth headphones will work and OpenBSD handles it swimmingly. There's very little that I can't do with it versus my Linux workstation, at least for my needs.
  - thisrod 6y ago
    Thanks. I might try building one of those. But the problem remains: eventually, the next upgrade will crash every time you boot it, and what will you do then?

I would suggest to just install OpenBSD and try it (maybe in a VM?), one of the selling points is the simplicity of the setup process. It can be a one evening project.

erk__ 6y ago

I recently went and installed FreeBSD on my laptop. It has until now been a pretty good experiance. The main reason I went with FreeBSD over OpenBSD at the moment was that NVIDIA only supports FreeBSD. FreeBSD is also pretty simple (at least compared to linux) so it wins there as well.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
By NVIDIA supporting FreeBSD you mean that half-assed thing with binary drivers allowing you to get a picture, but no CUDA? Or is that old information which i should forget?
- magic_quotes 6y ago
  Unfortunately, half-assed vendor support is still quite compelling compared to no vendor support.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    It depends on your use-case, i guess. If my intent would be using FreeBSD as my daily-driver "desktop/laptop-OS" i'd avoid NVIDIA like the plague, becaue without CUDA their unique selling point does not exist, but the hassle of some "switcheroo-black-magic" possibly persists. Which i wouldn't have with an intel-gpu, also less power draw. Even AMD is often supported in a better way, be it opensourced, or relying on their binary blob.
    - magic_quotes 6y ago
      > Even AMD is often supported in a better way, be it opensourced, or relying on their binary blob. AMD binary blob? You mean that amdgpu-pro thing? That doesn't exist on FreeBSD.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        Maybe not the latest and greatest "Pro", but otherwise? https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics/AMD-GPU-Matrix https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics/AMD-GPU-Matrix edit: maybe should have added https://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/#index5h2 https://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/#index5h2 too
- loeg 6y ago
  Sure, the factual parts of that are accurate. Your opinion colors some of the adjectives. OpenGL works well, for example. No CUDA, no NVENC/DEC.
  - erk__ 6y ago
    Well it is a bit of a grey zone but I have gotten Vulkan to work and I think at least NVENC works as well. The solution is rather hacky though. It extracts libraries from the Linux driver and loads them when you run programs. A look at the code make it seems like cuda is getting loaded as well so it may work. https://github.com/shkhln/nvshim https://github.com/shkhln/nvshim
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      While i respectfully congratulate the authors of that shim for their ingenuity, that is no support.
      - chupasaurus 6y ago
        Nothing drastically changed since Torvalds had sended his gratitude[0]. [0] https://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=2997 https://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=2997 (time coded)
        LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        I concur.
        chupasaurus 6y ago
        Wayland support fiasco, changes in driver's EULA to deny the usage of consumer-grade GPUs in VMs are 2 things off the top of my head.
        floatboth 6y ago

dEnigma 6y ago

A selling point in comparison to what? A "one evening project" installation doesn't seem to be all that amazing by any standard, in my opinion.

greggyb 6y ago
I think that the parent is saying that "trying OpenBSD" is a "one evening project". The installation should be complete within just a couple minutes.
- int_19h 6y ago
  I don't see how one could try OpenBSD, and derive any conclusions other than, "oh great, yet another Unix", in a single evening.
  - hedora 6y ago
    To get it working at all, you have to find the manual. Once you find the manual, you’ll realize it’s well-documented and simple, and that simply using it has great educational value. If those things don’t appeal to you, it’s probably not the OS for you. It takes about an evening to figure this out, in my experience.
    - hackmiester 6y ago
      But those things apply to Linux distributions too, e.g., Debian.
      - wilsonthewhale 6y ago
        Having experienced both operating systems, Debian gets nowhere close. The Debian wiki is full of outdated articles. OpenBSD's manual pages and online FAQ combined have never failed to answer a question I've had about the base system. It's really that good. The ArchWiki is close behind in usefulness, but that's maintained by its community and article quality varies.

thisrod 6y ago

> maybe in a VM? But that's the thing. The real benefits from OpenBSD come when it's the only system you need. Who cares how simple and elegant the guest system is, if you need to maintain a linux installation to host it? A project on the scale of OpenBSD can't possibly support all the hardware that's out there. And the system is under active development, so there are constant regressions in hardware support. That's fine for John Carmack: he can fire up ed and fix a kernel panic, that's how he winds down after work. But the vision that attracts me to OpenBSD is a box in a closet that Google doesn't have the key to, which sits there for 6 months receiving my email and serving my homepage, takes 10 minutes to update, then sits there for the next 6 months; maybe once every 5 years I'd need to read a manpage and port my smtpd.conf to a new syntax. Hardware regressions are what stop that from happening. The OpenBSD developers are getting what they want, and good luck to them. The shame is that a little bit of coordination, where they chose one model of ThinkPad every other year and committed to supporting it for a decade, would make the system so much more useful for so many other people.

hedora 6y ago
> box in a closet https://github.com/elad/openbsd-apu2 https://github.com/elad/openbsd-apu2 Mine is 4(?) years old, and has never crashed. I use it every day. If you want something newer, or have 10x the power budget: https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/ryzen-build-for-openbsd https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/ryzen-build-for-openbsd
- busterarm 6y ago
  Yeah it generally works pretty happily with most hardware in modern X/T Thinkpads. Happily running it on my X270. It's missing the 802.11ac and Bluetooth support but I'll live. I bought a BT-W2 so that my Bluetooth headphones will work and OpenBSD handles it swimmingly. There's very little that I can't do with it versus my Linux workstation, at least for my needs.
- thisrod 6y ago
  Thanks. I might try building one of those. But the problem remains: eventually, the next upgrade will crash every time you boot it, and what will you do then?