7 ms·

How my childhood friend became an Internet laughingstock.

98 points by kylelibra 16y ago

tdoggette 16y ago
Link goes to #p2: hit Page Up when you get there.
kylelibra 16y ago
http://www.slate.com/id/2287808/pagenum/all/ http://www.slate.com/id/2287808/pagenum/all/ That is the link to the entire article instead of half way down, sorry about that.
- josefresco 16y ago
  So funny, I read the second half and then wondered why there wasn't an intro into who this guy was and what he did. I then realized, scrolled up and read the first half. Still a great article, I forwarded it to my Mom. This isn't about Internet cyber bullying so much as it is about childhood, friends and sticking up for one-another. It's also about criminals and how society looks upon those who have broken our society's laws.
gyardley 16y ago
It is so easy to be a snarky Internet bully until something like this happens to restore your sense of shame. It reminds me a bit of a situation that happened back when I was blogging instead of doing, when I wrote some rather unkind things about the design and aesthetics of Wesabe. I didn't really have anything to contribute - I was just being critical for the sake of being critical. The next day, the CEO of the company wrote a long comment on my blog defending his employee's tastes and (rather politely) pointing out what a dick I was being. Reading that comment made me feel like I was three inches tall. Since then, while I don't always succeed, I try to think before I type.
- zach 16y ago
  Congratulations on having a sense of shame in the first place. That's the difference between you and someone who reacts by being excited that their "mixing it up" got the attention of the CEO. However, I think many folks, myself included, who have a keen sense of shame then overreact in these situations. It threatens our identity, in some way. If we can pull back a little from that, maybe a situation like that could totally end up as a "that's the crazy way I got to know this guy" story you can both laugh about now. They would be the one who convinced the tough critic, and you could be the one who's never shy with their opinion.
- sudont 16y ago
  We shouldn't discount criticism entirely, lest we give the world to the Uwe Bolls out there. Your post would have gone from being "critical" to being a critique if you had provided both: an explanation of why it's bad, and insight into how it could be better. Consider the art crit. I've seen a full range of reaction: some students would completely qualify why they did everything, and be able to either discard useless criticism and incorporate the good; others would completely reject it: combativeness was either anger or sadness. Once, a girl cried because the professor (very politely) said that she needed to increase the contrast in her photos. The explanation, much like Knight's, was "well, I tried hard, isn't that good enough?" And the answer is no, unfortunately. You can't just hide the work in a shoebox under the bed to shield it from criticism. From what you said, though, earnestness is not opposite from politeness. It's possible to be critical without being a dick.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
m0nastic 16y ago
We've been talking a lot about this article on Facebook since Luke published it. Full disclosure: I grew up with the guy in question, and am friends with the author of the piece (both were in my Boy Scout troop). I was most struck by the fact that I hadn't heard anything about this story until he wrote this article, and feel pretty shitty about the situation. It's easy to see things on the news and lose sight of the fact that people are people. Empathy is harder to feel when it involves reading some text and a funny caption on a web site. I think Luke's point is that we're almost all guilty of this (himself included).
- puredemo 16y ago
  He got arrested in a ridiculous way. Worst case scenario is he'll have to change his name. People are far, far worse off all over the planet.
danik 16y ago
> Most of us are Internet bullies now, some of us more active than others. Yeah right. Most people I know aren't, and most people I discuss with online aren't either. I'd say the reality is that the blog author belongs to a minority of people acting like bullies and now he tries to defend his behaviour by saying 'everyone else does it'.
- m0nastic 16y ago
  It would appear that you hang around on a different internet than I do. I'm envious. The internet I frequent is populated by people who love to forward stories around, post links to Facebook (with comments like "I can't believe how stupid this guys is", and do the same on Twitter. Web sites which showcase said stories, and maybe if they're very lucky, mainstream news will cover them as well. I pay about $80/month for internet. I'd gladly pay twice that to access the internet you use.
  - danik 16y ago
    It's not that I don't see that happening but it's always from people I don't know and never talked to in real life or on the internet. I have this strong feeling it's a loud minority. It's the same with real bullying, the bullies think they behave normal but the majority think they are bullies. edit: changed majority to minority:)
    - m0nastic 16y ago
      I think you're probably right. I think people don't necessarily associate ridiculing someone on the internet with bullying (in many cases because the target of ridicule isn't there interacting with them).
      - danik 16y ago
        Sure me and my friends talk shit about people that has been exposed doing stupid things on the internet, but we do it in private. We don't ridicule in public. I think that's the difference.
cafard 16y ago
Congratulations. Two days after the news story everyone had forgotten about it. Now the fellow has at least an extra two days of attention.
juddlyon 16y ago
This line in the last paragraph sums it up: "Stop reveling in the misfortune of others."
- lancefisher 16y ago
  Yeah, except he said that is one thing he can't do.
tlrobinson 16y ago
Of course writing an article in Slate (including photos of the childhood "friend") pushes the whole story from obscure Internet news (which I hadn't heard/cared about) into the mainstream...
- jonkelly 16y ago
  exactly. I hadn't heard about it either before seeing this post.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- xteemarie 16y ago
  Agreed. If he hadn't published his name/incident, I might be able to read the story without cringing. I'm glad I didn't grow up with Luke.
pavel_lishin 16y ago
> Yes, Neil is a real person with real feelings. AND 30 THINGS HE ATTEMPTED TO SMUGGLE INTO JAIL INSIDE HIS ASS. There's the proper sense of shame you should feel when considering whether to mock someone or not, and then there's communal shame that should make us think twice before doing something morally, ethnically and criminally questionable. Perhaps the next guy who considers doing something like this will remember laughing at Neil, and will decide not to become an internet joke.
- JoachimSchipper 16y ago
  Why do you feel that smuggling some relatively harmless stuff into prison is so bad that the entire internet has to shame him? It's not like he was smuggling in two knifes and an automatic rifle...
  - pavel_lishin 16y ago
    Well, leaving aside any personal issues on whether it's a good idea to use drugs while in jail, it's still a tremendously dumb idea - as illustrated by the fact that not only did he have to fill his rectum with a variety of uncomfortable objects (a whole syringe? kudos, but ouch) but also got caught and presumably caught extra time for it as well. I'd imagine that the public shaming will discourage him and others from doing something self-harmful again more so than an added jail term will.
    - JoachimSchipper 16y ago
      Yes, it's pretty dumb, but is this really the most shame-worthy thing?
    - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
      No, I believe from his bio that he does Not in fact learn to avoid self-harmful acts. That's why he's a tragic figure, instead of for instance an evil one.
- Fargren 16y ago
  It's the work of the justice system to punish people who commit crimes, not the job of anonymous people in the internet. Public mocking an humilliation is cruel and unusual punishment.
eunice_chen 16y ago
His last paragraph completely ruined the entire article for me. I was actually getting emotional as he wrote about stories with his childhood friend. I was hoping this article would have a point. In the end, he had no point and nothing changed, except he still remains another asshole on the internet (which was common knowledge in the first place). I want my 3 minutes back.
Semiapies 16y ago
I think we're overestimating the "anonymous internet snark" aspect of this phenomenon. Back before most people lived in large cities and could be anonymous, this sort of thing still happened. People got reputations, and they rarely lived down embarrassing things that became public knowledge. Is it really worse for some random person thousands of miles away to laugh at a mugshot and a story (someone who could meet you a week later and not even recognize you), or to hear "Got anything interesting up your ass today?" from people you run into on the street for the rest of your life?
- kenjackson 16y ago
  It is worse when its something embarrassing (rather than criminal). Like the lady who fell in the fountain. Now every employer, boyfriend, colleague will know about this. It's no longer anyone in your small circle in your hometown, but anyone with an internet connection.
  - Semiapies 16y ago
    I think you overestimate the lifespan of these things. When we're inundated with a dozen new public humiliation memes a day, people just won't remember. Who looks to see whether some person you've met is the subject of embarassing YouTube videos? Do you really think you'd recognize the Star Wars Kid if you passed him on the street?
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      Not if I passed him on the street, but if he joined my company, I'd Google him. I've probably searched for every person I know. Takes five seconds and on occassion yields something really interesting.
- uvTwitch 16y ago
  The internet simply increases the reach that stories like this have. It reminds me of an old joke, appropriate before the net: "You know son, I was a volunteer fireman in this town, put out many blazes, but they don't call me Billy the Fireman. I also build quite a few bridges in my time, and they're still standing to this day, but they don't call me Billy the Bridge Builder. But you fuck one goat..."
nostromo 16y ago
Honestly, if something embarrassing about me ever shows up online -- just don't use my name. I probably wouldn't mind providing chuckles for strangers, the trouble is that Google never forgets. If I was the Slate author, I wouldn't have used his name for this very reason. He's not doing him any favors by writing this.
aero142 16y ago
I don't think anyone knew the name Cathy Cruz Marrero before she filed a lawsuit and put it on the public record. We've all done stupid things, and I'm glad mine weren't captured on video, but I'm pretty sure she handled it as poorly as possible.
HSO 16y ago
... and how I came to write an article about it on slate.com, said mugshot inclusive, to further my own career as writer. Eh?!
alex_c 16y ago
To be fair, if one of my friends fell into a water fountain while texting, I would probably never let them live it down.
- marcusbooster 16y ago
  Which is fine in private, but I would hope that you—as a true friend—would also defend them against unwarranted personal attacks from strangers.
kstenerud 16y ago
Never saw this before today, but it hardly seems funny. That's how people smuggle contraband in prison. The sad truth is that either you have wealth with which to get what you want from other people, or you swallow your pride and smuggle stuff in via your rectum. It's not funny; it's a sad commentary on the demeaning prison life.
Mz 16y ago
I can't relate. I generally do not take glee in the misfortune of others and don't enjoy such "jokes". And this whole thing just makes me shake my head. He did absolutely nothing good for his childhood friend. He just made it worse by providing all kinds of additional personal info and extra publicity for something I'm sure the guy wishes would just go away. Ugh.

98 points by kylelibra 16y ago

Link goes to #p2: hit Page Up when you get there.

http://www.slate.com/id/2287808/pagenum/all/ http://www.slate.com/id/2287808/pagenum/all/ That is the link to the entire article instead of half way down, sorry about that.

josefresco 16y ago
So funny, I read the second half and then wondered why there wasn't an intro into who this guy was and what he did. I then realized, scrolled up and read the first half. Still a great article, I forwarded it to my Mom. This isn't about Internet cyber bullying so much as it is about childhood, friends and sticking up for one-another. It's also about criminals and how society looks upon those who have broken our society's laws.

gyardley 16y ago

It is so easy to be a snarky Internet bully until something like this happens to restore your sense of shame. It reminds me a bit of a situation that happened back when I was blogging instead of doing, when I wrote some rather unkind things about the design and aesthetics of Wesabe. I didn't really have anything to contribute - I was just being critical for the sake of being critical. The next day, the CEO of the company wrote a long comment on my blog defending his employee's tastes and (rather politely) pointing out what a dick I was being. Reading that comment made me feel like I was three inches tall. Since then, while I don't always succeed, I try to think before I type.

zach 16y ago
Congratulations on having a sense of shame in the first place. That's the difference between you and someone who reacts by being excited that their "mixing it up" got the attention of the CEO. However, I think many folks, myself included, who have a keen sense of shame then overreact in these situations. It threatens our identity, in some way. If we can pull back a little from that, maybe a situation like that could totally end up as a "that's the crazy way I got to know this guy" story you can both laugh about now. They would be the one who convinced the tough critic, and you could be the one who's never shy with their opinion.
sudont 16y ago
We shouldn't discount criticism entirely, lest we give the world to the Uwe Bolls out there. Your post would have gone from being "critical" to being a critique if you had provided both: an explanation of why it's bad, and insight into how it could be better. Consider the art crit. I've seen a full range of reaction: some students would completely qualify why they did everything, and be able to either discard useless criticism and incorporate the good; others would completely reject it: combativeness was either anger or sadness. Once, a girl cried because the professor (very politely) said that she needed to increase the contrast in her photos. The explanation, much like Knight's, was "well, I tried hard, isn't that good enough?" And the answer is no, unfortunately. You can't just hide the work in a shoebox under the bed to shield it from criticism. From what you said, though, earnestness is not opposite from politeness. It's possible to be critical without being a dick.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

m0nastic 16y ago

We've been talking a lot about this article on Facebook since Luke published it. Full disclosure: I grew up with the guy in question, and am friends with the author of the piece (both were in my Boy Scout troop). I was most struck by the fact that I hadn't heard anything about this story until he wrote this article, and feel pretty shitty about the situation. It's easy to see things on the news and lose sight of the fact that people are people. Empathy is harder to feel when it involves reading some text and a funny caption on a web site. I think Luke's point is that we're almost all guilty of this (himself included).

puredemo 16y ago
He got arrested in a ridiculous way. Worst case scenario is he'll have to change his name. People are far, far worse off all over the planet.

danik 16y ago

> Most of us are Internet bullies now, some of us more active than others. Yeah right. Most people I know aren't, and most people I discuss with online aren't either. I'd say the reality is that the blog author belongs to a minority of people acting like bullies and now he tries to defend his behaviour by saying 'everyone else does it'.

m0nastic 16y ago
It would appear that you hang around on a different internet than I do. I'm envious. The internet I frequent is populated by people who love to forward stories around, post links to Facebook (with comments like "I can't believe how stupid this guys is", and do the same on Twitter. Web sites which showcase said stories, and maybe if they're very lucky, mainstream news will cover them as well. I pay about $80/month for internet. I'd gladly pay twice that to access the internet you use.
- danik 16y ago
  It's not that I don't see that happening but it's always from people I don't know and never talked to in real life or on the internet. I have this strong feeling it's a loud minority. It's the same with real bullying, the bullies think they behave normal but the majority think they are bullies. edit: changed majority to minority:)
  - m0nastic 16y ago
    I think you're probably right. I think people don't necessarily associate ridiculing someone on the internet with bullying (in many cases because the target of ridicule isn't there interacting with them).
    - danik 16y ago
      Sure me and my friends talk shit about people that has been exposed doing stupid things on the internet, but we do it in private. We don't ridicule in public. I think that's the difference.

cafard 16y ago

Congratulations. Two days after the news story everyone had forgotten about it. Now the fellow has at least an extra two days of attention.

juddlyon 16y ago

This line in the last paragraph sums it up: "Stop reveling in the misfortune of others."

lancefisher 16y ago
Yeah, except he said that is one thing he can't do.

tlrobinson 16y ago

Of course writing an article in Slate (including photos of the childhood "friend") pushes the whole story from obscure Internet news (which I hadn't heard/cared about) into the mainstream...

jonkelly 16y ago
exactly. I hadn't heard about it either before seeing this post.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
xteemarie 16y ago
Agreed. If he hadn't published his name/incident, I might be able to read the story without cringing. I'm glad I didn't grow up with Luke.

pavel_lishin 16y ago

> Yes, Neil is a real person with real feelings. AND 30 THINGS HE ATTEMPTED TO SMUGGLE INTO JAIL INSIDE HIS ASS. There's the proper sense of shame you should feel when considering whether to mock someone or not, and then there's communal shame that should make us think twice before doing something morally, ethnically and criminally questionable. Perhaps the next guy who considers doing something like this will remember laughing at Neil, and will decide not to become an internet joke.

JoachimSchipper 16y ago
Why do you feel that smuggling some relatively harmless stuff into prison is so bad that the entire internet has to shame him? It's not like he was smuggling in two knifes and an automatic rifle...
- pavel_lishin 16y ago
  Well, leaving aside any personal issues on whether it's a good idea to use drugs while in jail, it's still a tremendously dumb idea - as illustrated by the fact that not only did he have to fill his rectum with a variety of uncomfortable objects (a whole syringe? kudos, but ouch) but also got caught and presumably caught extra time for it as well. I'd imagine that the public shaming will discourage him and others from doing something self-harmful again more so than an added jail term will.
  - JoachimSchipper 16y ago
    Yes, it's pretty dumb, but is this really the most shame-worthy thing?
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    No, I believe from his bio that he does Not in fact learn to avoid self-harmful acts. That's why he's a tragic figure, instead of for instance an evil one.
Fargren 16y ago
It's the work of the justice system to punish people who commit crimes, not the job of anonymous people in the internet. Public mocking an humilliation is cruel and unusual punishment.

eunice_chen 16y ago

His last paragraph completely ruined the entire article for me. I was actually getting emotional as he wrote about stories with his childhood friend. I was hoping this article would have a point. In the end, he had no point and nothing changed, except he still remains another asshole on the internet (which was common knowledge in the first place). I want my 3 minutes back.

Semiapies 16y ago

I think we're overestimating the "anonymous internet snark" aspect of this phenomenon. Back before most people lived in large cities and could be anonymous, this sort of thing still happened. People got reputations, and they rarely lived down embarrassing things that became public knowledge. Is it really worse for some random person thousands of miles away to laugh at a mugshot and a story (someone who could meet you a week later and not even recognize you), or to hear "Got anything interesting up your ass today?" from people you run into on the street for the rest of your life?

kenjackson 16y ago
It is worse when its something embarrassing (rather than criminal). Like the lady who fell in the fountain. Now every employer, boyfriend, colleague will know about this. It's no longer anyone in your small circle in your hometown, but anyone with an internet connection.
- Semiapies 16y ago
  I think you overestimate the lifespan of these things. When we're inundated with a dozen new public humiliation memes a day, people just won't remember. Who looks to see whether some person you've met is the subject of embarassing YouTube videos? Do you really think you'd recognize the Star Wars Kid if you passed him on the street?
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Not if I passed him on the street, but if he joined my company, I'd Google him. I've probably searched for every person I know. Takes five seconds and on occassion yields something really interesting.
uvTwitch 16y ago
The internet simply increases the reach that stories like this have. It reminds me of an old joke, appropriate before the net: "You know son, I was a volunteer fireman in this town, put out many blazes, but they don't call me Billy the Fireman. I also build quite a few bridges in my time, and they're still standing to this day, but they don't call me Billy the Bridge Builder. But you fuck one goat..."

nostromo 16y ago

Honestly, if something embarrassing about me ever shows up online -- just don't use my name. I probably wouldn't mind providing chuckles for strangers, the trouble is that Google never forgets. If I was the Slate author, I wouldn't have used his name for this very reason. He's not doing him any favors by writing this.

aero142 16y ago

I don't think anyone knew the name Cathy Cruz Marrero before she filed a lawsuit and put it on the public record. We've all done stupid things, and I'm glad mine weren't captured on video, but I'm pretty sure she handled it as poorly as possible.

HSO 16y ago

... and how I came to write an article about it on slate.com, said mugshot inclusive, to further my own career as writer. Eh?!

alex_c 16y ago

To be fair, if one of my friends fell into a water fountain while texting, I would probably never let them live it down.

marcusbooster 16y ago
Which is fine in private, but I would hope that you—as a true friend—would also defend them against unwarranted personal attacks from strangers.

kstenerud 16y ago

Never saw this before today, but it hardly seems funny. That's how people smuggle contraband in prison. The sad truth is that either you have wealth with which to get what you want from other people, or you swallow your pride and smuggle stuff in via your rectum. It's not funny; it's a sad commentary on the demeaning prison life.

Mz 16y ago

I can't relate. I generally do not take glee in the misfortune of others and don't enjoy such "jokes". And this whole thing just makes me shake my head. He did absolutely nothing good for his childhood friend. He just made it worse by providing all kinds of additional personal info and extra publicity for something I'm sure the guy wishes would just go away. Ugh.