6 ms·

I can't fathom how private companies still think that they can make the CCP happy AND their western customers. The CCP holds values that are completely untenab

by socrates1998 6y ago

I can't fathom how private companies still think that they can make the CCP happy AND their western customers. The CCP holds values that are completely untenable to western values. As time goes on, companies who don't know this will lose massive brand value in the western world. The NBA has managed to tight rope this so far, but I doubt they can hold it together for very much longer. The CCP is still calling for the Houston Rockets GM to be fired 10 months after he tweeted vague support for the Hong Kong Democracy movement. They still refuse to show NBA games domestically because of it. One vague tweet in support of democracy.

gruez 6y ago
The bigger question is why google/youtube cares. Isn't youtube/google banned in china?
- yorwba 6y ago
  They still have lots of Chinese users, who probably don't enjoy having insults hurled at them.
  - Qub3d 6y ago
    There are lots of human subcultures that don't enjoy having insults hurled at them, however. Should we really have a corporation drawing these lines in the sand? And should it be doing so with a basic word filter, rather than the "report" function? All context is lost in situations like this, and it is anathema to the design of the internet.
shadowgovt 6y ago
Actually it's super-easy; barely an inconvenience. Most Western customers really do not care. Like, really-really. The default attitude is "Well, China has its rules and the Western nations have theirs. They can get along." Leaks between rulesets are relatively rare in the sea of regular day-to-day operations. And honestly, I don't think the CCP's goals are as far different from the goals of, say, the US government's as some believe. The countries are trading buddies. They're both empires with a number of citizens that is too-big-a-number-to-visualize-in-one's-head. If they ever came into direct conflict, these differences would start to put Western-headquartered countries in difficult positions, but that's not the current state of things.
- socrates1998 6y ago
  I think that attitude of customers is changing as we speak. Before, sure, it was easy to ignore the ramblings of how the CCP was upset at something and a western company just gives into them. Now, anti-CCP sentiment is growing. I think western people are starting to realize how different we actually are. The CCP will be blamed for the pandemic (which is mostly correct), and you will see a massive decoupling here in the next couple of years. This is the first real anti-globalization movement in about 80 years. Who knows where it will end.
  - shadowgovt 6y ago
    Hopefully not where the last anti-globalization movement did (isolationism, fascism, and a world war).
    - socrates1998 6y ago
      Obviously. I think the CCP has been given a pass the past 15 years. It's high time they conform to the western liberal democratic model of government. I really hope it doesn't get ugly, but it could. We are so different than them, I just don't see how we go back to business as usual after this mess.
      - jhpriestley 6y ago
        Actually even longer than 15 years, the US has all-too-generously allowed the CCP to continue to exist ever since we benevolently allowed their army to fight ours to a standstill on the Korean peninsula in 1953.
        shadowgovt 6y ago
        It's not really an "allow" kind of deal; a nation's options are limited dealing with the most populous nation on the planet. Lots of options end in nose-cutting to spite faces, and the winning move starts to look like "don't play" real quick.
Veen 6y ago
It goes beyond private companies. We can't even rely on the WHO to do the right thing when it risks annoying the CCP.
- MiSeRyDeee 6y ago
  Which is an untrue story that Trump trying to tell
  - Veen 6y ago
    Is it an untrue story told by Trump that the Taiwanese are kept out of the World Health Organization—to the point that their data was ignored in the early days of the pandemic? Is it untrue that they are kept out to appease the CCP? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52088167 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52088167
smsm42 6y ago
Unfortunately, for most of the Western would values like democracy, freedom of speech, human rights, etc. are more of a vague ideal than something to live by. They surely support it, in words, but if it costs them more than $100 to uphold these values, if there's any substantial risk in it, if you have to risk losing money for standing up to CCP - forget about it. As a society, we'd rather spend weeks debating whether wearing sombrero, growing cauliflowers and drinking craft beer is racist (yes, that's real debates that people have) or whether it's OK to have a particular picture as a logo of a company, than address people being put in concentration camps and disassembled for spare parts by CCP. Maybe if CCP actions cause a pandemic that kills hundreds of thousands we vaguely consider doing something... but nah, arresting single surfers for "not social distancing" sounds more fun. So don't put too much hope in "western customers". They'd allow likes of Google to get away with a lot, unfortunately.
throwaway122378 6y ago
> “I can't fathom how private companies still think that they can make the CCP happy AND their western customers” It’s easy. The amount of profits that can be made from China’s 800M and growing middle class is worth the hit of westerners forming a negative opinion. Westerners will forget over time just like everything else.

gruez 6y ago

The bigger question is why google/youtube cares. Isn't youtube/google banned in china?

yorwba 6y ago
They still have lots of Chinese users, who probably don't enjoy having insults hurled at them.
- Qub3d 6y ago
  There are lots of human subcultures that don't enjoy having insults hurled at them, however. Should we really have a corporation drawing these lines in the sand? And should it be doing so with a basic word filter, rather than the "report" function? All context is lost in situations like this, and it is anathema to the design of the internet.

shadowgovt 6y ago

Actually it's super-easy; barely an inconvenience. Most Western customers really do not care. Like, really-really. The default attitude is "Well, China has its rules and the Western nations have theirs. They can get along." Leaks between rulesets are relatively rare in the sea of regular day-to-day operations. And honestly, I don't think the CCP's goals are as far different from the goals of, say, the US government's as some believe. The countries are trading buddies. They're both empires with a number of citizens that is too-big-a-number-to-visualize-in-one's-head. If they ever came into direct conflict, these differences would start to put Western-headquartered countries in difficult positions, but that's not the current state of things.

socrates1998 6y ago
I think that attitude of customers is changing as we speak. Before, sure, it was easy to ignore the ramblings of how the CCP was upset at something and a western company just gives into them. Now, anti-CCP sentiment is growing. I think western people are starting to realize how different we actually are. The CCP will be blamed for the pandemic (which is mostly correct), and you will see a massive decoupling here in the next couple of years. This is the first real anti-globalization movement in about 80 years. Who knows where it will end.
- shadowgovt 6y ago
  Hopefully not where the last anti-globalization movement did (isolationism, fascism, and a world war).
  - socrates1998 6y ago
    Obviously. I think the CCP has been given a pass the past 15 years. It's high time they conform to the western liberal democratic model of government. I really hope it doesn't get ugly, but it could. We are so different than them, I just don't see how we go back to business as usual after this mess.
    - jhpriestley 6y ago
      Actually even longer than 15 years, the US has all-too-generously allowed the CCP to continue to exist ever since we benevolently allowed their army to fight ours to a standstill on the Korean peninsula in 1953.
      - shadowgovt 6y ago
        It's not really an "allow" kind of deal; a nation's options are limited dealing with the most populous nation on the planet. Lots of options end in nose-cutting to spite faces, and the winning move starts to look like "don't play" real quick.

Veen 6y ago

It goes beyond private companies. We can't even rely on the WHO to do the right thing when it risks annoying the CCP.

MiSeRyDeee 6y ago
Which is an untrue story that Trump trying to tell
- Veen 6y ago
  Is it an untrue story told by Trump that the Taiwanese are kept out of the World Health Organization—to the point that their data was ignored in the early days of the pandemic? Is it untrue that they are kept out to appease the CCP? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52088167 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52088167

smsm42 6y ago

Unfortunately, for most of the Western would values like democracy, freedom of speech, human rights, etc. are more of a vague ideal than something to live by. They surely support it, in words, but if it costs them more than $100 to uphold these values, if there's any substantial risk in it, if you have to risk losing money for standing up to CCP - forget about it. As a society, we'd rather spend weeks debating whether wearing sombrero, growing cauliflowers and drinking craft beer is racist (yes, that's real debates that people have) or whether it's OK to have a particular picture as a logo of a company, than address people being put in concentration camps and disassembled for spare parts by CCP. Maybe if CCP actions cause a pandemic that kills hundreds of thousands we vaguely consider doing something... but nah, arresting single surfers for "not social distancing" sounds more fun. So don't put too much hope in "western customers". They'd allow likes of Google to get away with a lot, unfortunately.

throwaway122378 6y ago

> “I can't fathom how private companies still think that they can make the CCP happy AND their western customers” It’s easy. The amount of profits that can be made from China’s 800M and growing middle class is worth the hit of westerners forming a negative opinion. Westerners will forget over time just like everything else.