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Agree. I am using the German email provider mailbox.org They even report how often the government forces them to release info with a search warrant. However,

Agree. I am using the German email provider mailbox.org They even report how often the government forces them to release info with a search warrant. However, I have yet to find an email provider that mimics Gmail's tagging system (=> you can give n many tags to a single email and that email is only kept once on the server). I often think that Google's "Don't do evil" motto is stretched way too often these days.

vorpalhex 6y ago
They removed "Do no evil" from their guidelines.
- webartifex 6y ago
  For real? Now I understand.
- mdwrigh2 6y ago
  It's "Don't be evil" and it's still in the code of conduct: And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up! - https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/ https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    [^1] is the particular source I had in mind. It seems to no longer be a value but part of the signoff. [^1]: https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-dont-be-evil-from-1826153393 https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...
    - Crash0v3rid3 6y ago
      The last sentence in your article: 'The updated version of Google’s code of conduct still retains one reference to the company’s unofficial motto—the final line of the document is still: “And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!”' So they literally just moved it to the end of the code of conduct and did not remove it.
slightwinder 6y ago
> However, I have yet to find an email provider that mimics Gmail's tagging system IMAP does support keywords, which are basically tags. Probably some good IMAP-Client supports this? There is also JMAP as a modern alternative to IMAP in development. Fastmail released a beta-interface for this, which also includes tag-support AFAIK. And finally, Outlook surprisingly seems to support tagging, but they call it categories(?). It's not obvious at first if you only know traditional categories.
- webartifex 6y ago
  Thanks for your comments. I have used Thunderbird and Evolution mainly. They cannot really do that afaik. > Probably some good IMAP-Client supports this? The Gmail clients do that (at least the last version's I remember 3 years ago). Haven't seen any other FOSS that does so too. That is what made going away from Gmail kind of "hard". Currently I'm using K9 on Android and the web client by mailbox.org based on OX AppSuite. Both are ok, but usability could be better.
  - miedpo 6y ago
    Hmmm... I'm pretty sure you can give an email multiple tags on Thunderbird. Although, you run into an issue because some email servers don't support tag sync, so that might be creating an issue here. Or so I think. In any case, best of luck with it!
    - webartifex 6y ago
      On Gmail, I used their tags as what they appear on Gmail as, namely "virtual folders". Thunderbird's tags are a different concept from folders on IMAP.
      - miedpo 6y ago
        Ah, that is true. Got what you were getting at now :)
  - slightwinder 6y ago
rfulop 6y ago
I am pretty sure Protonmail includes tags (called labels)
- cryptoquick 6y ago
  Protonmail is very difficult to liberate your email from. I've tried their exporter, it didn't work for me. This was just earlier this year I tried that, too. I actually run my own dovecot and postfix server, and use an SMTP proxy. That way I know I have full custody of my email. I just use Outlook as a client, and it was surprisingly not awful. Honestly, encryption and privacy isn't what motivates me. It's the fact Google could delete my data without warning, because they have with others. They also have no support I've ever been able to speak to. Even when I was using GCP, and I was paying Google hundreds for the privilege of decent technical support, it was like pulling teeth to get ahold of someone who could actually help. Not sure if Protonmail is like this, or has ever deleted paid accounts (I have one with them, too), but their vendor lock-in is very real, and it's justified through encryption and privacy measures. Honey, if I wanted actual privacy and anonymity, I certainly wouldn't use a paid service. There are ways to get an email and server that never asks for your name, and can be paid for in privacy coin. Then, you can own your own VPN, and that's where you proxy. Tor wouldn't help here, since even if you ran a hidden service and SOCKS proxy, you're still screwed if the logs are compromised. So make sure your distro is adequately LUKS encrypted, etc., etc. Best to think hard about your threat model depending on what you want to do. I don't do illegal shit, but I'd just done the thought exercise of how someone would if they lived in a place where stuff we'd consider an infringement on our freedoms an acceptable reason to do something illegal in their jurisdiction. The United States is a remarkably safe place to do business and live your life, as long as you keep your nose clean and pay your taxes. Have some money stashed away for a good attorney if necessary. Try to make their job easier by not doing anything the cops would need to care about, of course. But people like easy privacy, and pseudonymity even when they're doing nothing that could even be misinterpreted as illegal. But if they were, they're absolutely doing it wrong if you pay for Protonmail, or don't but sing up with a phone number they pay for or with their personal Gmail address.
thelibrarian 6y ago
FYI, Fastmail has just launched Gmail-alike tagging in public beta.

vorpalhex 6y ago

They removed "Do no evil" from their guidelines.

webartifex 6y ago
For real? Now I understand.
mdwrigh2 6y ago
It's "Don't be evil" and it's still in the code of conduct: And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up! - https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/ https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  [^1] is the particular source I had in mind. It seems to no longer be a value but part of the signoff. [^1]: https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-dont-be-evil-from-1826153393 https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...
  - Crash0v3rid3 6y ago
    The last sentence in your article: 'The updated version of Google’s code of conduct still retains one reference to the company’s unofficial motto—the final line of the document is still: “And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!”' So they literally just moved it to the end of the code of conduct and did not remove it.

slightwinder 6y ago

> However, I have yet to find an email provider that mimics Gmail's tagging system IMAP does support keywords, which are basically tags. Probably some good IMAP-Client supports this? There is also JMAP as a modern alternative to IMAP in development. Fastmail released a beta-interface for this, which also includes tag-support AFAIK. And finally, Outlook surprisingly seems to support tagging, but they call it categories(?). It's not obvious at first if you only know traditional categories.

webartifex 6y ago
Thanks for your comments. I have used Thunderbird and Evolution mainly. They cannot really do that afaik. > Probably some good IMAP-Client supports this? The Gmail clients do that (at least the last version's I remember 3 years ago). Haven't seen any other FOSS that does so too. That is what made going away from Gmail kind of "hard". Currently I'm using K9 on Android and the web client by mailbox.org based on OX AppSuite. Both are ok, but usability could be better.
- miedpo 6y ago
  Hmmm... I'm pretty sure you can give an email multiple tags on Thunderbird. Although, you run into an issue because some email servers don't support tag sync, so that might be creating an issue here. Or so I think. In any case, best of luck with it!
  - webartifex 6y ago
    On Gmail, I used their tags as what they appear on Gmail as, namely "virtual folders". Thunderbird's tags are a different concept from folders on IMAP.
    - miedpo 6y ago
      Ah, that is true. Got what you were getting at now :)
- slightwinder 6y ago

rfulop 6y ago

I am pretty sure Protonmail includes tags (called labels)

cryptoquick 6y ago
Protonmail is very difficult to liberate your email from. I've tried their exporter, it didn't work for me. This was just earlier this year I tried that, too. I actually run my own dovecot and postfix server, and use an SMTP proxy. That way I know I have full custody of my email. I just use Outlook as a client, and it was surprisingly not awful. Honestly, encryption and privacy isn't what motivates me. It's the fact Google could delete my data without warning, because they have with others. They also have no support I've ever been able to speak to. Even when I was using GCP, and I was paying Google hundreds for the privilege of decent technical support, it was like pulling teeth to get ahold of someone who could actually help. Not sure if Protonmail is like this, or has ever deleted paid accounts (I have one with them, too), but their vendor lock-in is very real, and it's justified through encryption and privacy measures. Honey, if I wanted actual privacy and anonymity, I certainly wouldn't use a paid service. There are ways to get an email and server that never asks for your name, and can be paid for in privacy coin. Then, you can own your own VPN, and that's where you proxy. Tor wouldn't help here, since even if you ran a hidden service and SOCKS proxy, you're still screwed if the logs are compromised. So make sure your distro is adequately LUKS encrypted, etc., etc. Best to think hard about your threat model depending on what you want to do. I don't do illegal shit, but I'd just done the thought exercise of how someone would if they lived in a place where stuff we'd consider an infringement on our freedoms an acceptable reason to do something illegal in their jurisdiction. The United States is a remarkably safe place to do business and live your life, as long as you keep your nose clean and pay your taxes. Have some money stashed away for a good attorney if necessary. Try to make their job easier by not doing anything the cops would need to care about, of course. But people like easy privacy, and pseudonymity even when they're doing nothing that could even be misinterpreted as illegal. But if they were, they're absolutely doing it wrong if you pay for Protonmail, or don't but sing up with a phone number they pay for or with their personal Gmail address.

thelibrarian 6y ago

FYI, Fastmail has just launched Gmail-alike tagging in public beta.