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The Dutch have an absolutely amazing intelligence apparatus. In 2014 AIVD hacked the office network of Russia's APT29, and maintained access at least through t
by mike_d 6y ago
The Dutch have an absolutely amazing intelligence apparatus.
In 2014 AIVD hacked the office network of Russia's APT29, and maintained access at least through the 2016 DNC hack. The best part was they also had access to the security cameras and were able to watch the attacks in real time.
- the-dude 6y agoAs a Dutch citizen, I am very suspicious about this story. Sounds too good to be true? Probably is not true. The timing was also amazingly convenient.
- pocket_titan 6y agoAs another Dutch citizen, it's a true story! Read about it here: https://amp.nos.nl/artikel/2213762-hackteam-aivd-gaf-fbi-cruciale-info-over-russische-inmenging-verkiezingen.html https://amp.nos.nl/artikel/2213762-hackteam-aivd-gaf-fbi-cru...
- the-dude 6y agoI know it has been reported in the news. Does not make it true.
- ciarannolan 6y agoThey were pretty public with the evidence when it came out (including releasing security camera footage and names of Russian agents). Which parts do you think are false?
- coldtea 6y agoAnd those names can't be faked (or belong to true people but not relevant to what they supposedly did) because? I'd be sceptical of any "revelation" from such agencies...
- ciarannolan 6y agoThere's evidence that it's substantially true (ex. security camera footage and confirmation by most worldwide press outlets). Curious if you have evidence that it's fabricated? Other than your distrust of intelligence agencies in general.
- coldtea 6y ago>Curious if you have evidence that it's fabricated? What happened to the burden of proof? Especially from professional liars like intelligence agencies...
- ciarannolan 6y agoSo, no?
- coldtea 6y agoNo, they don't have any proof just a claim we should take at face value.
- ciarannolan 6y agoAre you being intentionally obtuse?
- BozeWolf 6y agoI advice to read this book then: https://www.bol.com/nl/p/het-is-oorlog-maar-niemand-die-het-ziet/9200000107493354/ https://www.bol.com/nl/p/het-is-oorlog-maar-niemand-die-het-... It was in there. Pretty interesting read as well. Lots of stuff on FoxIT and the guy behind it.
- elliekelly 6y agoIt doesn’t seem an English translation of the book has been released yet. I don’t speak Dutch so apologies if this is a silly question but when you mention FoxIT are you referring to the PDF application?
- codnee 6y agoIt's this FoxIT I imagine: https://www.fox-it.com/en/ https://www.fox-it.com/en/
- elliekelly 6y agoAh, that makes much more sense! Thanks!
- rramadass 6y agoAgree with you. Sounds too good to be True. IMO, Probably somebody had a mole inside GRU who was instrumental in getting the info. but in order to provide cover for its source, they invented a success story of the AIVD.
- brnt 6y agoThere isn't much literature on it (Dutch spying activities), but the little there is might convince you. A fun exercise is applying with the AIVD or NFI (involved in spying on home soil). You may meet someone who can tell you some good war stories. Of course, you'll be bound not to speak of it outside company walls ;)
- codr7 6y agoEven more amazing considering that there was no hack, it was an internal leak named Seth Rich [0]. I know, false news, end of discussion. Very convenient label to slap on any information that threatens to rock the boat. What never ceases to amaze me is how otherwise seemingly intelligent people blindly believe what they're told without asking questions as soon as the potential answers get uncomfortable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich
- possiblelion 6y agoSo you're trying to tell us that Russian APT teams could not have hacked into DNC servers because there might have been an internal leak instead? Why not both? Why would Dutch intelligence care about supporting a random political faction in the United States?
- codr7 6y agoNot at all, but judging from the amount of effort put into starting a war with Russia around the same time I find it more likely that the whole thing was made up. US intelligence, Dutch intelligence, UK intelligence, German intelligence, who cares? They're all in the same boat, and it's sinking fast.
- celticninja 6y agodoesn't that put Russian intelligence in the same boat too, if those mentioned could be involved in disinformation then so could russia
- tzarvlad 6y agoReality check: The Russian economy completely depends on gas and middle class salary is 200 euro (said Putin). So who is sinking here? At the same time they colonized Crimea, fought a war with Georgia. Who is starting wars here? You might not like intelligence work, but that's another story.
- 6y ago
- krona 6y agoThey can't be that good if you happen to know this and be writing about it on the internet.
- ashtonkem 6y agoOr this is the least of their exploits, and releasing this info is a psyops thing.
- bergstromm466 6y agoI love how this is downvoted, even though it's lilely a commonly used strategy in many Western power's playbook. Did nobody read Snowden's book?
- ArnoVW 6y agoIn general, in the spyworld you do not talk about your tricks. But if you've already been found out, and your tricks no longer work, there is still political advantage to be had (damage your adversary, obtain credit from partners, obtain funding, easier recrutement). https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/dutch-intelligence-hacked-video-cameras-in-office-of-russians-who-hacked-dnc/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/dutch...
- coldtea 6y agoOr if you just want to claim it to damage your adversary, whether they have the unit you supposedly hacked and it does what you say it does, or not...
- ciarannolan 6y agoCovert access for over two years to every part of the GRU's election meddling apparatus is very impressive, actually. Once you're caught, too, there's sometimes value in sort of showing it off and embarrassing your adversary.
- jeroenhd 6y agoFrom what I've read, things started going wrong when an (ex?) official of the US released information the Dutch shared with their American allies[1]. Details on when or why access to the Russian networks was lost aren't readily available (secret service and all that) but I do remember reading about the intelligence agencies being not particularly pleased with the way the information was publicly released by their allies. It makes sense that someone gloating about how there's an ally of theirs in your network will make you take a second look at the traffic flowing through your network if you're waging cyber warfare. [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-details-emerge-about-2014-russian-hack-of-the-state-department-it-was-hand-to-hand-combat/2017/04/03/d89168e0-124c-11e7-833c-503e1f6394c9_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-d...
- 0xy 6y agoI know it's probably unintentional considering the false news reports at the time, but the 2016 DNC hack was actually never conclusively pinned on Russia. In fact, according to a recent release the entire basis for the US intelligence appartus' opinion was totally unproven. CrowdStrike never conclusively proved Russia was behind the hack, and in fact didn't even conclusively prove a hack even occurred. https://www.itwire.com/security/crowdstrike-chief-admits-no-proof-that-russia-exfiltrated-dnc-emails.html https://www.itwire.com/security/crowdstrike-chief-admits-no-...
- tzarvlad 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner
- blaser-waffle 6y ago4 month old account with like no karma thinks the Russians didn't do it.
- mrmonkeyman 6y agoDutch. It's not amazing, it's OK. The rest of the world is just lagging behind.
- coldtea 6y agoOr they advertise that they have. Including making up claims for specific foreign countries people have no way of substantiating...
- 1MachineElf 6y agoI'm skeptical of that story. I know a Russian on Facebook who disputed it. He said that the Red Square building described in the report doesn't exist, and provided a Google Maps view of Moscow to support his claim. It's also curious to me why the Dutch even would allow APT29 to get away with their activities at the time, if they truly had access as deep as they claimed.