5 ms·

It's about the power dynamic. You're talking about someone who isn't from the area, who doesn't know anyone nearby, and who is supposed to sleep at your place.

It's about the power dynamic. You're talking about someone who isn't from the area, who doesn't know anyone nearby, and who is supposed to sleep at your place. If you are aggressively flirting with them, they may be forced into the impression that either they sleep with you or they sleep on the street. And that would definitely be assault

globular-toast 6y ago
They are women who have chosen to stay at a male stranger's house. Do you think women are completely naïve about how the world works? I've known two women who couch surf and it was de rigueur to have sex with their hosts.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  Lately, there's a weird trend of the Victorian idea that women have no agency, can't think for themselves, and it's up to us to protect those poor little things. Though the person you did respond to did scope their concern to "aggressively flirting" while communicating to a woman that she has to fuck you or get tossed to the street which is obviously not what people mean any time they mention "hitting on women".
  - namdnay 6y ago
    No, lately there's a completely normal trend of taking into account that true consent can only be given without constraint.
- namdnay 6y ago
  > They are women who have chosen to stay at a male stranger's house They are people who have chosen to stay at a stranger's house > Do you think women are completely naïve about how the world works No, but I don't think they want to have to take every decision based on probability of getting raped > I've known two women who couch surf and it was de rigueur to have sex with their hosts And I know male hosts who had sex with their male visitors. Does that mean that if I couchsurf at a man's flat I should be expecting intercourse for my bed?
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    You seem to be confused between what you think should be true versus what actually is true. If you think women can afford to take the same risks as men when travelling then I just really don't know what to say to you. That's just hopelessly naïve. Attractive girls learn very early on that every man wants to have sex with them. It's just part of life for them. > Does that mean that if I couchsurf at a man's flat I should be expecting intercourse for my bed? No, but if I were you I would at least consider that there might be a "misunderstanding" leading to you having to find alternative accommodation.
    - namdnay 6y ago
      > what you think should be true versus what actually is true That's what laws are for. Shaping society so that it's like what we want rather than the jungle > If you think women can afford to take the same risks as men when travelling When did anyone in this thread ever say that? > No, but if I were you I would at least consider that there might be a "misunderstanding" leading to you having to find alternative accommodation I'd prefer to live in a world where I don't have to make that choice, hence society shunning people who would put others in that position
    - buttersbrian 6y ago
      > No, but if I were you I would at least consider that there might be a "misunderstanding" leading to you having to find alternative accommodation. Why, on a site like couchsurfing, would there be any implied sex, or opportunity for misunderstanding around 'sex for surfing'? It's blatantly outside the standards and norms of the community.
      - CapricornNoble 6y ago
        I think he's arguing (and I would agree) that it is blatantly WITHIN the standards and norms for some dudes to complete ignore community mores and bend/break every rule imaginable to get laid. The risk is non-zero. At the individual level, everyone should acknowledge the risk, assess it, and implement control measures to reduce its potential impacts on you, personally. To fail to account for it is simply dangerously naive. I don't think I've used Couchsurfer since....2012? Roughly the same time I discovered Tinder. I absolutely treated CS as a dating site where you had to be extremely discrete/low-key in your approach. I rarely offered my couch but did offer local tour guide-like services to cute women which was essentially a first date. I would never consider staying at a male host's place; even as a Marine I would assume the rape/murder risk too high. Maybe I'm just a misanthropic cynic but I don't trust anyone to behave themselves. I also have never seen the appeal of the "broke backpacker" travel methodology, perhaps colored by experiences living out of a backpack in the military, which usually sucks. If I have the money to fly halfway around the world, I should have the money to afford comfortable private accommodations. If I'm going to mingle, I'd prefer to mingle with the locals rather than other foreigners on a shoestring budget (or rich people PRETENDING to be on a shoestring budget).
- weakfish 6y ago
  Jesus christ, this is wrong on so many levels.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  > it was de rigueur to have sex with their hosts. On which website and what country is this? To anyone reading this -- that is absolutely NOT the norm, speaking as a dude who has hosted and couchsurfed a bit.
hombre_fatal 6y ago
I could give you some tips if you think "hitting on women" means strong-arming them into an implicit deal that they have to fuck you or else.
- namdnay 6y ago
  Hence the term "aggressively flirting"

globular-toast 6y ago

They are women who have chosen to stay at a male stranger's house. Do you think women are completely naïve about how the world works? I've known two women who couch surf and it was de rigueur to have sex with their hosts.

hombre_fatal 6y ago
Lately, there's a weird trend of the Victorian idea that women have no agency, can't think for themselves, and it's up to us to protect those poor little things. Though the person you did respond to did scope their concern to "aggressively flirting" while communicating to a woman that she has to fuck you or get tossed to the street which is obviously not what people mean any time they mention "hitting on women".
- namdnay 6y ago
  No, lately there's a completely normal trend of taking into account that true consent can only be given without constraint.
namdnay 6y ago
> They are women who have chosen to stay at a male stranger's house They are people who have chosen to stay at a stranger's house > Do you think women are completely naïve about how the world works No, but I don't think they want to have to take every decision based on probability of getting raped > I've known two women who couch surf and it was de rigueur to have sex with their hosts And I know male hosts who had sex with their male visitors. Does that mean that if I couchsurf at a man's flat I should be expecting intercourse for my bed?
- globular-toast 6y ago
  You seem to be confused between what you think should be true versus what actually is true. If you think women can afford to take the same risks as men when travelling then I just really don't know what to say to you. That's just hopelessly naïve. Attractive girls learn very early on that every man wants to have sex with them. It's just part of life for them. > Does that mean that if I couchsurf at a man's flat I should be expecting intercourse for my bed? No, but if I were you I would at least consider that there might be a "misunderstanding" leading to you having to find alternative accommodation.
  - namdnay 6y ago
    > what you think should be true versus what actually is true That's what laws are for. Shaping society so that it's like what we want rather than the jungle > If you think women can afford to take the same risks as men when travelling When did anyone in this thread ever say that? > No, but if I were you I would at least consider that there might be a "misunderstanding" leading to you having to find alternative accommodation I'd prefer to live in a world where I don't have to make that choice, hence society shunning people who would put others in that position
  - buttersbrian 6y ago
    > No, but if I were you I would at least consider that there might be a "misunderstanding" leading to you having to find alternative accommodation. Why, on a site like couchsurfing, would there be any implied sex, or opportunity for misunderstanding around 'sex for surfing'? It's blatantly outside the standards and norms of the community.
    - CapricornNoble 6y ago
      I think he's arguing (and I would agree) that it is blatantly WITHIN the standards and norms for some dudes to complete ignore community mores and bend/break every rule imaginable to get laid. The risk is non-zero. At the individual level, everyone should acknowledge the risk, assess it, and implement control measures to reduce its potential impacts on you, personally. To fail to account for it is simply dangerously naive. I don't think I've used Couchsurfer since....2012? Roughly the same time I discovered Tinder. I absolutely treated CS as a dating site where you had to be extremely discrete/low-key in your approach. I rarely offered my couch but did offer local tour guide-like services to cute women which was essentially a first date. I would never consider staying at a male host's place; even as a Marine I would assume the rape/murder risk too high. Maybe I'm just a misanthropic cynic but I don't trust anyone to behave themselves. I also have never seen the appeal of the "broke backpacker" travel methodology, perhaps colored by experiences living out of a backpack in the military, which usually sucks. If I have the money to fly halfway around the world, I should have the money to afford comfortable private accommodations. If I'm going to mingle, I'd prefer to mingle with the locals rather than other foreigners on a shoestring budget (or rich people PRETENDING to be on a shoestring budget).
weakfish 6y ago
Jesus christ, this is wrong on so many levels.
blaser-waffle 6y ago
> it was de rigueur to have sex with their hosts. On which website and what country is this? To anyone reading this -- that is absolutely NOT the norm, speaking as a dude who has hosted and couchsurfed a bit.

hombre_fatal 6y ago

I could give you some tips if you think "hitting on women" means strong-arming them into an implicit deal that they have to fuck you or else.

namdnay 6y ago
Hence the term "aggressively flirting"