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Thanks for your posts abellerose, I am in agreeance and find this topic generally interesting. Free will hasn't been defined in such a way I think it can even e

Thanks for your posts abellerose, I am in agreeance and find this topic generally interesting. Free will hasn't been defined in such a way I think it can even exist (that I've seen or understood). Do you have any thoughts on how this impacts the way you see the world? Personally I find it something I'm almost keeping 'off to one side', and am aware of, but in the 'heat of the moment' I still feel like I'm an independent agent. Maybe it speaks to the self-deception at the core of every human. Sam Harris (while being a figure I can take or leave) raised what seems a good point; that our penal systems should be therefore 100% geared around rehabilitation, not punishment. Do you think there are other ways we can map this onto daily life? I try and never be too certain of anything, given the veritable ocean of cognitive biases we have to fight against.. but this is a trait I developed before discovering the argument of determinism vs non-determinism.

abellerose 6y ago
I'm happy to encounter someone interested in the topic like I am. I'll further expand some of my thoughts in connection to the topic. I'm very interested in your own thoughts on the topic as well. I hope when writing about this topic that I further learn something. As for me, understanding free will being an illusion, eventually made me realize a few things. Yes, some things are simply impossible. Not even a traditional concept of God, could have or make free will be real and knowing so is from understanding the logic of cause & effect. Not even true randomness can make us be free agents. Although I think randomness is an impossibility because there's always a cause and that can be passionately debated for the theory of quantum physics in our universe. But randomness doesn't matter in regard to free will being an illusion. Furthermore, the idea of free will being an illusion made it simpler for me personally to understand harder concepts than before. How humans created the concept of good & evil, but we simply apply it incorrectly and to what we observe throughout our existence. Nothing is evil or good in the traditional sense and when we realize neither us or even a traditional God should be labeled responsible for all the wicked or good things existing on earth. Free will is an impossibility for God just like humans. My reflection from a mirror has the same control as I do. :) Similar to how Sam Harris expresses humans shouldn't be responsible. Thus, the concept confirms for me that everything experienced cannot be perfect from the start. Providing me with wishful thinking that the universe could repeat and where the same conditions that made our life, could happen repeat again & again; with improvements occurring each iteration depending on the starting variables. Maybe like a brute-forcing algorithm. That's the spiritual part I get out of understanding the concept of cause & effect. There's no reason for me to care if free will is an illusion because it has always been and if life doesn't repeat, well I find that more perplexing than the idea of the universe repeating for infinity. In any case, I truly wish society moves towards rehabilitation instead of punishment. I'm agnostic for context and I think life is sacred. But I also think people should be able to commit suicide safely from society allowing it and if they truly suffer. Now, the concept of rehabilitation being superior makes the most sense if society desires to progress humanity and to the purest essences of equality. The concept of judgement & punishment being a deterrent, is a fallacy, and just a one sided convenience for the privileged. The ones born into a life where they'll never be judged & punished while the misfortunate individuals born into a life where they will eventually commit a crime. They were needing help from the start and were used & thrown away like a piece of trash throughout life. I find the current day justice system similar to the Salem witch trials. I think any hard determinist Judge forced into caring out the justice system of today, simply punishes an individual for the sake of the health of someone harmed and while the one harmed hasn't grasped there isn't free will. Otherwise I think the person harmed would have a tough time placing the blame on anyone or desiring it. Anyway, I think the knowledge of free will being an illusion is somewhat taboo. It goes against a lot of religious beliefs. I'm not really sure if religion is a good thing that came out of human existence or simply comparable to an illness. A lot of LGBT people have had their life ruined from religious parents and a lot of slavery was justified from religious belief. There are young people being molested by priests. Maybe religion needs to evolve into understanding free will is an illusion? Lastly, the concept of free will being an illusion may hinder how society functions under capitalism & reward based structure. People might get fed up while knowing they're destined to be modern day slaves compared to the privileged because of their birth and this is only the case if society doesn't adapt to the knowledge being wide spread. Basically, I think current society structure is wrong while knowing everything revolves around who was born into good genetics, financial & family/social status, environmental/education access and who was born misfortunate. While the media showcases the anomalies to delude people into thinking they will eventually get to the top as well. Nevertheless, I'm a pacifist from the understanding and somewhat grateful it happened. I think the world will eventually adapt when it becomes common knowledge. I personally would have preferred to be born into such a society and instead of the current day one if humans collectively cherish equality above all else. My fear of death is gone as well and I find things more interesting than the past.

abellerose 6y ago

I'm happy to encounter someone interested in the topic like I am. I'll further expand some of my thoughts in connection to the topic. I'm very interested in your own thoughts on the topic as well. I hope when writing about this topic that I further learn something. As for me, understanding free will being an illusion, eventually made me realize a few things. Yes, some things are simply impossible. Not even a traditional concept of God, could have or make free will be real and knowing so is from understanding the logic of cause & effect. Not even true randomness can make us be free agents. Although I think randomness is an impossibility because there's always a cause and that can be passionately debated for the theory of quantum physics in our universe. But randomness doesn't matter in regard to free will being an illusion. Furthermore, the idea of free will being an illusion made it simpler for me personally to understand harder concepts than before. How humans created the concept of good & evil, but we simply apply it incorrectly and to what we observe throughout our existence. Nothing is evil or good in the traditional sense and when we realize neither us or even a traditional God should be labeled responsible for all the wicked or good things existing on earth. Free will is an impossibility for God just like humans. My reflection from a mirror has the same control as I do. :) Similar to how Sam Harris expresses humans shouldn't be responsible. Thus, the concept confirms for me that everything experienced cannot be perfect from the start. Providing me with wishful thinking that the universe could repeat and where the same conditions that made our life, could happen repeat again & again; with improvements occurring each iteration depending on the starting variables. Maybe like a brute-forcing algorithm. That's the spiritual part I get out of understanding the concept of cause & effect. There's no reason for me to care if free will is an illusion because it has always been and if life doesn't repeat, well I find that more perplexing than the idea of the universe repeating for infinity. In any case, I truly wish society moves towards rehabilitation instead of punishment. I'm agnostic for context and I think life is sacred. But I also think people should be able to commit suicide safely from society allowing it and if they truly suffer. Now, the concept of rehabilitation being superior makes the most sense if society desires to progress humanity and to the purest essences of equality. The concept of judgement & punishment being a deterrent, is a fallacy, and just a one sided convenience for the privileged. The ones born into a life where they'll never be judged & punished while the misfortunate individuals born into a life where they will eventually commit a crime. They were needing help from the start and were used & thrown away like a piece of trash throughout life. I find the current day justice system similar to the Salem witch trials. I think any hard determinist Judge forced into caring out the justice system of today, simply punishes an individual for the sake of the health of someone harmed and while the one harmed hasn't grasped there isn't free will. Otherwise I think the person harmed would have a tough time placing the blame on anyone or desiring it. Anyway, I think the knowledge of free will being an illusion is somewhat taboo. It goes against a lot of religious beliefs. I'm not really sure if religion is a good thing that came out of human existence or simply comparable to an illness. A lot of LGBT people have had their life ruined from religious parents and a lot of slavery was justified from religious belief. There are young people being molested by priests. Maybe religion needs to evolve into understanding free will is an illusion? Lastly, the concept of free will being an illusion may hinder how society functions under capitalism & reward based structure. People might get fed up while knowing they're destined to be modern day slaves compared to the privileged because of their birth and this is only the case if society doesn't adapt to the knowledge being wide spread. Basically, I think current society structure is wrong while knowing everything revolves around who was born into good genetics, financial & family/social status, environmental/education access and who was born misfortunate. While the media showcases the anomalies to delude people into thinking they will eventually get to the top as well. Nevertheless, I'm a pacifist from the understanding and somewhat grateful it happened. I think the world will eventually adapt when it becomes common knowledge. I personally would have preferred to be born into such a society and instead of the current day one if humans collectively cherish equality above all else. My fear of death is gone as well and I find things more interesting than the past.