6 ms·

A bunch of delivery 'drivers' here in sunny Sydney just use a bicycle - and they're often just students or backpackers etc making a couple of bucks in the after

by 6nf 6y ago

A bunch of delivery 'drivers' here in sunny Sydney just use a bicycle - and they're often just students or backpackers etc making a couple of bucks in the afternoon while getting fit. They're happy to make $10 an hour which would normally be illegal under Australian employment laws. It's hard for a local pizza shop to compete with this kind of thing and the sheer scale of Uber Eats.

imgabe 6y ago
Unfortunately in the US you get people screaming that those drivers are criminally underpaid and are being exploited by heartless capitalists. Because of course random Internet commenters are better able to judge the drivers' priorities and desires than the drivers themselves.
- ViViDboarder 6y ago
  Are you seriously arguing that the drivers would rather be underpaid than get paid a fair wage? The argument is not that these people shouldn’t be able to find work, but that they should get paid fairly for the work they do.
  - imgabe 6y ago
    I am arguing that they would rather be paid some wage rather than have no job available. A backpacker who just wants to make enough money to get to their next destination probably doesn't want to deal with the overhead of taking on a full-time job and is happy to have the flexibility in exchange for less money. Fair is determined by the two people who are party to the transaction. If they both agree to it, then they consider it to be fair. If it is unfair, they are free to decline. The opinions of unrelated third-parties about whether a transaction is "fair" are irrelevant.
    - akiselev 6y ago
      How many transient backpackers actually work for these companies to fund their immediate journeys and what do they have to do with a debate on localized externalities that they never experience?
      - imgabe 6y ago
        No idea. It is probably not anywhere near the number of salaried employees who bully local governments into passing wage laws they will never experience the unintended consequences of. Yet somehow they still feel entitled to decide for other people what working arrangements they should be allowed to make for themselves.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        akiselev 6y ago
        Same question, what does A have to do with B? I've had enough herring today.
        imgabe 6y ago
        Let's assume for a moment that people are not helpless imbeciles who need us to tell them what to do and that they choose the best option available to them, within the constraints of their life. Let's further assume that they are more familiar and better equipped to balance the constraints of their lives than we are. Then we can deduce that if we remove the option they have chosen by making it illegal they will necessarily be left with a worse option. Since if there had been a better one, they would have taken it. If we feel that the best option they have is not good enough because it makes us feel bad or whatever, then the question we should ask is "How can we make better options available?", not "How can we take away the best of the available options?" Legislating a price floor does not magically change the underlying economics of a business. It just makes the jobs below that floor go away.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
  - icelancer 6y ago
    >> Are you seriously arguing that the drivers would rather be underpaid than get paid a fair wage? Economist Thomas Sowell has argued that point and more about how the minimum wage enables racism, so, potentially? https://www.aei.org/economics/thomas-sowell-on-the-cruelty-of-minimum-wage-laws/ https://www.aei.org/economics/thomas-sowell-on-the-cruelty-o...
foxrob92 6y ago
>It's hard for a local pizza shop to compete with this kind of thing and the sheer scale of Uber Eats. I mean, Uber Eats is losing cash at a phenomenal rate. So, more accurately: >It's hard for a local pizza shop to compete with obscene amounts of venture capital subsidised delivery
kevmo314 6y ago
> they're often just students or backpackers etc making a couple of bucks in the afternoon while getting fit I did this in lieu of going to the gym daily a while back ago. Adds a bit of gamification and social interaction, although takes a bit longer for the same intensity. I can't imagine having to live off that wage though.

by 6nf 6y ago

imgabe 6y ago

Unfortunately in the US you get people screaming that those drivers are criminally underpaid and are being exploited by heartless capitalists. Because of course random Internet commenters are better able to judge the drivers' priorities and desires than the drivers themselves.

ViViDboarder 6y ago
Are you seriously arguing that the drivers would rather be underpaid than get paid a fair wage? The argument is not that these people shouldn’t be able to find work, but that they should get paid fairly for the work they do.
- imgabe 6y ago
  I am arguing that they would rather be paid some wage rather than have no job available. A backpacker who just wants to make enough money to get to their next destination probably doesn't want to deal with the overhead of taking on a full-time job and is happy to have the flexibility in exchange for less money. Fair is determined by the two people who are party to the transaction. If they both agree to it, then they consider it to be fair. If it is unfair, they are free to decline. The opinions of unrelated third-parties about whether a transaction is "fair" are irrelevant.
  - akiselev 6y ago
    How many transient backpackers actually work for these companies to fund their immediate journeys and what do they have to do with a debate on localized externalities that they never experience?
    - imgabe 6y ago
      No idea. It is probably not anywhere near the number of salaried employees who bully local governments into passing wage laws they will never experience the unintended consequences of. Yet somehow they still feel entitled to decide for other people what working arrangements they should be allowed to make for themselves.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - akiselev 6y ago
        Same question, what does A have to do with B? I've had enough herring today.
        imgabe 6y ago
        Let's assume for a moment that people are not helpless imbeciles who need us to tell them what to do and that they choose the best option available to them, within the constraints of their life. Let's further assume that they are more familiar and better equipped to balance the constraints of their lives than we are. Then we can deduce that if we remove the option they have chosen by making it illegal they will necessarily be left with a worse option. Since if there had been a better one, they would have taken it. If we feel that the best option they have is not good enough because it makes us feel bad or whatever, then the question we should ask is "How can we make better options available?", not "How can we take away the best of the available options?" Legislating a price floor does not magically change the underlying economics of a business. It just makes the jobs below that floor go away.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
- icelancer 6y ago
  >> Are you seriously arguing that the drivers would rather be underpaid than get paid a fair wage? Economist Thomas Sowell has argued that point and more about how the minimum wage enables racism, so, potentially? https://www.aei.org/economics/thomas-sowell-on-the-cruelty-of-minimum-wage-laws/ https://www.aei.org/economics/thomas-sowell-on-the-cruelty-o...

foxrob92 6y ago

>It's hard for a local pizza shop to compete with this kind of thing and the sheer scale of Uber Eats. I mean, Uber Eats is losing cash at a phenomenal rate. So, more accurately: >It's hard for a local pizza shop to compete with obscene amounts of venture capital subsidised delivery

kevmo314 6y ago

> they're often just students or backpackers etc making a couple of bucks in the afternoon while getting fit I did this in lieu of going to the gym daily a while back ago. Adds a bit of gamification and social interaction, although takes a bit longer for the same intensity. I can't imagine having to live off that wage though.