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As someone that actually used palantir, they don't do magick. Splunk beats them in every category for conventional data analysis. They do however have an excel
by badrabbit 6y ago
As someone that actually used palantir, they don't do magick. Splunk beats them in every category for conventional data analysis.
They do however have an excellent grasp on ML. Let's say you have billions of images,document images and documents (of any kind) they will search it better than google can. They obviously do a lot more but the thing that makes them shine is the UX. If you're a cop for example you put in a license plate and it shows you all you need about the car,driver,history,correlations and analysis of all entities and much more without the user being expected to know anything technical at all(you can imagine what can be seen when someone puts in your IP or phone#). They do a good job at linking documents and data points. I'm afraid I don't know enough about off the shelf ML to make a good comparison.
I don't agree with Mr.Thiel but his logic is "if we don't do it,someone will". And that's the idea behind in-q-tel (I'm sure HNers and the VC scene know that name well).
Thiel was also wrong about Trump, things are now worse off foe everyone. America has just about lost her grasp on keeping the world order,many trust relationships that kept peace and order since ww2 have been ruined.
As far as their work, I don't think "someone else" would have done it,because even if they did the quality may have been poorer. But I do agree the problem is far more deep-rooted and sinister than it appears.
For a long time you could safely trust the IC to know and respect democracy and the rule of law. But in recent times, they have violated every core tenants of a legitimate rule of law and civil liberty. Keeping the nation secure is not an excuse, if it is then any coup or subversion of elections can be justified this way. Are they helping their country or hurting it?
The existence of palantir and in-q-tel is very natural. The problem is how the IC and LEO communities as a whole have collectively lost sense of how everything they do is by consent of the people. But moreover, they should be on the people's side protecting rights and liberties. They stand as enemies of our liberties, sophisticated stalkers that will break any law to stalk you and control you all for your own good.
I think Mr. Thiel will regret his place in history. But it's very hard to blame him or pala tir. It's like blaming the sharpness of a knife when someone stabs you.
- adjkant 6y agoI agree with your general take but I'm surprised by your last line. > I think Mr. Thiel will regret his place in history. But it's very hard to blame him or Palantir. It's like blaming the sharpness of a knife when someone stabs you. If Thiel actually wanted to help the problem, there are surely much better ways than making Palantir. I think the "someone else will" logic is a thinly veiled excuse to justify what he wants to do, for other reasons. I think he 100% made the world worse with what was done here, and deserves according blame for that. To replace your analogy, I would say he saw a stabbing about to happen and instead of attempting to stop it, he decided to stab the person with a slightly blunter knife. The analogy breaks here, but this could have been thought on for years, and he couldn't think up any other solution to it, or spend his time somewhere more worthwhile instead? Even a failed attempt to stop the stabbing would have at least been understandable.
- badrabbit 6y agoI wasn't saying he was right but that ultimate cause and blame is not pointed at him. Much like the role IBM and BMW played when helping the Nazis. (Not that I think the US IC is anywhere near as bad).
- nelaboras 6y agofundamental difference between a business being co-opted by an autocratic state (do x or we take you over/arrest your families/...) and a business choosing to create a certain product that they could simply not have created. A better analogy might be a weapons company that chooses to make cluster grenades or chemical weapons knowing that they are not ethical even as far as weapons (machine learning) go, but it pays well..
- badrabbit 6y agoIBM is american,they volunteered to help Germany before the US cared about WW2
- tomp 6y ago> I don't agree with Mr.Thiel but his logic is "if we don't do it,someone will". In his interview with Dave Rubin he explained it differently (or at least I understood it differently) - he said that if they don't do it - it being prevent terrorist attacks - with technology + current assaults on civil liberties (i.e. the PATRIOT Act), then after new terrorist attacks, even more legislation will be passed, eroding civil liberties even further. He based this on US political response in wake of the 9/11 attacks.
- badrabbit 6y agoHe may have been talking about the legality and the PATRIOT act, the quote I recall was specifically about the services they provide.
- OkayPhysicist 6y agoMr. Thiel is unlikely to care about his place in history. People who care about being on the right side of history don't become real-life vampires.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago> in-q-tel (I'm sure HNers and the VC scene know that name well) I'd bet dollars to donuts that most people, including HN, don't know that. Ditto for ARPA/DARPA. In-q is the CIA's DARPA (formerly ARPA). They're all essentially startup incubators -- In-q sounds a lot like incu -- for technology that the government thinks would be useful. DARPA, as the name implies, is for Defense (military) projects, while In-q is more concerned with things the CIA cares about (whatever that is). They don't incubate startups in the YC sense, but find people doing research that they're interested in and give them money -- with strings attached, of course. Sometimes these are professors, or maybe small businesses, sometimes it's reaching out to big blue chip companies or defense contractors.