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An alternative will rise eventually. Couch surfing is all about experiences, friendships, and not thinking about money. Any person creating the alternative will

An alternative will rise eventually. Couch surfing is all about experiences, friendships, and not thinking about money. Any person creating the alternative will have to understand and accept that.

peterburkimsher 6y ago
BeWelcome is open-source, has been around for a decade already, and has excellent financial transparency. Their fundraising target for this year is 1300€. I've already contacted their developer to ask if I can help create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles. It's heartbreaking to see such a wonderful community be divided like this. There are no "rich" and "poor" countries, only ones with more inequality. Ideally I wish that the HQ would change their mind, but my support is now behind BeWelcome as the alternative. We must work together and stay united as a community. Travel will continue, despite government lockdowns. Contact tracing is much easier with hospex sites like BeWelcome than with 11 strangers in a hostel room. Economic troubles will lead people to cheaper alternatives. Even if C$ has been ruined by venture capitalists, giving freely and paying it forward will live on elsewhere. In case this message reaches the C$ investors in Silicon Valley, I don't hate you personally, and I wish that internal reform is possible so that we don't all have to flee to a new platform. But the new change, brought without consultation, is contrary to the principles that CS was founded on. CS is not Airbnb, nor is it a dating site, nor is it exclusive. Selling personal data and private messages didn't bother me too much - Facebook does the same. But trying to charge a monthly subscription from people who don't even have stable countries, never mind bank accounts, is totally ignorant. Change your mind, quickly, because the community is already one foot out of the door.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles. This has been brought up in the past (there have been multiple waves of disgruntled CS members leaving for BW), but it is pretty clear that CS would consider this web scraping that violates their terms of service. CS does not provide any authorized way to export its profiles. EDIT: Sorry, I'm wrong. I left CS and chose to use only community-driven hospitality-exchange platforms pre-GDPR.
  - MauranKilom 6y ago
    Sounds like that runs afoul of GDPR.
    - peterburkimsher 6y ago
      There is a data export tool, as a result of GDPR. https://www.couchsurfing.com/preferences/privacy https://www.couchsurfing.com/preferences/privacy However, there's no data import tool yet, and that's what I'd like to build.
- projektfu 6y ago
  I'll second that. Theft seems to happen as a matter of course in hostels, with just about everyone I know who uses them regularly having an experience. I don't hear too many bad CS stories except the friend of a friend who had to stay with a nudist (i.e. urban myth. The nudists on CS seem to be very open about it.)
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  Thank you for putting real effort into solving a problem you see in the world. > There are no "rich" and "poor" countries, only ones with more inequality. This is true only in the same way that there are no tall and short people, only taller and shorter people. Most of the population of the DRC lives worse lives than the bottom 1% of the US population in terms of material consumption. The US is rich. The DRC is poor.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  I'm not sure if it's still the case, but I think CS was forced into a 'for-profit' designation for practical reasons: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9633122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9633122 ... and it doesn't really represent the operation. At the end of the day, moderation and support for membership is needed, particularly for keeping predators out of the system, mechanisms for people who might have fallen prey to them. It is something that requires time and effort. Such operations need guaranteed vigilance on these issues, and aren't easily sustained by the whims of volunteer involvement. It might be that many established members are okay with taking risks. I remember one host I stayed with that talked about hitch-hiking on trucks around Europe to save money, but also how she got drugged once and her money stolen and dumped in the middle of an autobahn, and then another time how she 'talked herself out of' being raped. This sort of risk might be okay for the seasoned couchsurfer, but this might not sit well for newcomers who don't know who they are staying with. Not sure if the situation has changed with CS, and they've become profit-oriented, but it does take some money, from somewhere, to keep things to modern standards. Personally, I would prefer that CS was sustained by those who can afford to by donations, rather than subscription. And I may actually look to bewelcome, or hospitality club if that's still around. (I also used another called 'Trustroots', not sure if that still has a community.) Edit: To that individual with the privilege to down-vote, could you please correct me where I'm wrong with an actual comment?
  - peterburkimsher 6y ago
    Trustroots is being discussed as an alternative, but it doesn't have a reference system. I trust the reference system to keep the platform clear from the safety issues you describe. That's why I think BeWelcome is the best alternative to recommend right now. Servers cost money, and BeWelcome are transparent about that. Having developers to code the site and moderate the forum would be expensive if paid by the hour, but there are willing volunteers. Asking for donations is acceptable, a paywall demanding a subscription is not. Please come over to the BeWelcome forums; I'd like to discuss the possibilities of starting new meetups, and selling merch (t-shirts, hoodies, stickers) to improve the BeWelcome brand so it can bring together the community, lest we scatter. Any financial donation like that should be discussed democratically though, so that's why your input is needed. (I didn't downvote, I think your comment is fair)
SeeTheTruth 6y ago
It will have to come from the community then. A community has no inherent right to a service - or to the time and effort of the people who build and maintain it. So maybe alternative won't arise - because spending hours building a product and paying to host it for people who can't or won't pay is a hard sell.
ivnamei 6y ago
I'm trying to migrate to BeWelcome, but I really miss the hangout feature. Any other alternatives?

An alternative will rise eventually. Couch surfing is all about experiences, friendships, and not thinking about money. Any person creating the alternative will have to understand and accept that.

peterburkimsher 6y ago

BeWelcome is open-source, has been around for a decade already, and has excellent financial transparency. Their fundraising target for this year is 1300€. I've already contacted their developer to ask if I can help create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles. It's heartbreaking to see such a wonderful community be divided like this. There are no "rich" and "poor" countries, only ones with more inequality. Ideally I wish that the HQ would change their mind, but my support is now behind BeWelcome as the alternative. We must work together and stay united as a community. Travel will continue, despite government lockdowns. Contact tracing is much easier with hospex sites like BeWelcome than with 11 strangers in a hostel room. Economic troubles will lead people to cheaper alternatives. Even if C$ has been ruined by venture capitalists, giving freely and paying it forward will live on elsewhere. In case this message reaches the C$ investors in Silicon Valley, I don't hate you personally, and I wish that internal reform is possible so that we don't all have to flee to a new platform. But the new change, brought without consultation, is contrary to the principles that CS was founded on. CS is not Airbnb, nor is it a dating site, nor is it exclusive. Selling personal data and private messages didn't bother me too much - Facebook does the same. But trying to charge a monthly subscription from people who don't even have stable countries, never mind bank accounts, is totally ignorant. Change your mind, quickly, because the community is already one foot out of the door.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles. This has been brought up in the past (there have been multiple waves of disgruntled CS members leaving for BW), but it is pretty clear that CS would consider this web scraping that violates their terms of service. CS does not provide any authorized way to export its profiles. EDIT: Sorry, I'm wrong. I left CS and chose to use only community-driven hospitality-exchange platforms pre-GDPR.
- MauranKilom 6y ago
  Sounds like that runs afoul of GDPR.
  - peterburkimsher 6y ago
    There is a data export tool, as a result of GDPR. https://www.couchsurfing.com/preferences/privacy https://www.couchsurfing.com/preferences/privacy However, there's no data import tool yet, and that's what I'd like to build.
projektfu 6y ago
I'll second that. Theft seems to happen as a matter of course in hostels, with just about everyone I know who uses them regularly having an experience. I don't hear too many bad CS stories except the friend of a friend who had to stay with a nudist (i.e. urban myth. The nudists on CS seem to be very open about it.)
barry-cotter 6y ago
Thank you for putting real effort into solving a problem you see in the world. > There are no "rich" and "poor" countries, only ones with more inequality. This is true only in the same way that there are no tall and short people, only taller and shorter people. Most of the population of the DRC lives worse lives than the bottom 1% of the US population in terms of material consumption. The US is rich. The DRC is poor.
h0l0cube 6y ago
I'm not sure if it's still the case, but I think CS was forced into a 'for-profit' designation for practical reasons: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9633122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9633122 ... and it doesn't really represent the operation. At the end of the day, moderation and support for membership is needed, particularly for keeping predators out of the system, mechanisms for people who might have fallen prey to them. It is something that requires time and effort. Such operations need guaranteed vigilance on these issues, and aren't easily sustained by the whims of volunteer involvement. It might be that many established members are okay with taking risks. I remember one host I stayed with that talked about hitch-hiking on trucks around Europe to save money, but also how she got drugged once and her money stolen and dumped in the middle of an autobahn, and then another time how she 'talked herself out of' being raped. This sort of risk might be okay for the seasoned couchsurfer, but this might not sit well for newcomers who don't know who they are staying with. Not sure if the situation has changed with CS, and they've become profit-oriented, but it does take some money, from somewhere, to keep things to modern standards. Personally, I would prefer that CS was sustained by those who can afford to by donations, rather than subscription. And I may actually look to bewelcome, or hospitality club if that's still around. (I also used another called 'Trustroots', not sure if that still has a community.) Edit: To that individual with the privilege to down-vote, could you please correct me where I'm wrong with an actual comment?
- peterburkimsher 6y ago
  Trustroots is being discussed as an alternative, but it doesn't have a reference system. I trust the reference system to keep the platform clear from the safety issues you describe. That's why I think BeWelcome is the best alternative to recommend right now. Servers cost money, and BeWelcome are transparent about that. Having developers to code the site and moderate the forum would be expensive if paid by the hour, but there are willing volunteers. Asking for donations is acceptable, a paywall demanding a subscription is not. Please come over to the BeWelcome forums; I'd like to discuss the possibilities of starting new meetups, and selling merch (t-shirts, hoodies, stickers) to improve the BeWelcome brand so it can bring together the community, lest we scatter. Any financial donation like that should be discussed democratically though, so that's why your input is needed. (I didn't downvote, I think your comment is fair)

SeeTheTruth 6y ago

It will have to come from the community then. A community has no inherent right to a service - or to the time and effort of the people who build and maintain it. So maybe alternative won't arise - because spending hours building a product and paying to host it for people who can't or won't pay is a hard sell.

ivnamei 6y ago

I'm trying to migrate to BeWelcome, but I really miss the hangout feature. Any other alternatives?