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Some companies, like Pinterest, use systems like "lytmus" to prevent cheating. It's a monitored VM box where you do the entire assignment inside the GUI VM. I'm

Some companies, like Pinterest, use systems like "lytmus" to prevent cheating. It's a monitored VM box where you do the entire assignment inside the GUI VM. I'm sure certain trust factor guarantees prevent you from outsourcing the assignment overseas. All that said, it's an awful system and I ragequit the take-home midway through. It's buggy, slow, lacks useful hotkeys, and basically requires you to become accustomed to a wiped Linux box without any of the tools you would typically use. Sure, you can install them - but it's a timed assessment, for crying out loud. Finally, I suppose nothing stops you from logging in with your credentials on your authorized machine and then physically handing that machine to a paid agent.

derefr 6y ago
> I'm sure certain trust factor guarantees prevent you from outsourcing the assignment overseas. Who said anything about overseas? Hire your classmate to sit down at your own PC to do it. That's the Hard Problem.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  I heard some companies, possibly only in India, required a webcam to be on the whole time and for you to rotate it around the room beforehand.
  - noodlesUK 6y ago
    Yeah and this stops me pre-recording it how? I have a USB capture card that appears to the host machine just as a UVC webcam.
    - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
      Ask a few questions, including at least one that's unpredictable.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      "Touch your left cheek. Now show me the ceiling. Smile at the camera. Blink three times quickly." If you can pre-record stuff like that without knowing what the sequence of requested events will be, I'm impressed.
      - renewiltord 6y ago
        Oooh, it would be cool to deepfake oneself on this. On an intentionally downsampled video feed it could be quite convincing.
    - zeta0134 6y ago
      When I took my RedHat RHCSA exam, the proctor was a live human, and I needed to move the webcam in time with their instructions. It was a basic around-the-room pass, but it covered anywhere that I could have stashed materials with which to cheat. From there, even if I did have external materials, it would have been pretty obvious that I was using them because my eyes would be focused offscreen for an extended period of time. Just the knowledge that another human being was proctoring the exam made the idea of attempting to cheat pretty far fetched. My body language would have given it away, and it wouldn't be easy to transition smoothly from the interactive setup to some kind of pre-recorded loop without it being easily detected. The kind of person who could successfully pull that off... well, could also probably pass the test on their own merits.
      - elliekelly 6y ago
        Did they ask for a photo of your laptop? Particularly behind the lid? That’s the one place your webcam can’t see so it seems like it would be the ideal spot to hide or mount a cheat sheet.
        zeta0134 6y ago
        Ah, no but the exam was taken at a kiosk, not on my personal machine. I had only a few minutes in the room to get myself situated. The camera was USB, so I moved that around while the laptop remained stationary.
      - markrages 6y ago
        Could you have hidden a cable to another monitor/keyboard in another room?
      - StillBored 6y ago
        I suspect people are making this more complex than it needs to be. For most of these tests the difference between a good score and a poor one are just a few questions. So, the first step is just to actually take the test. The cheating bit would be having someone monitoring what your doing via a reasonably hi-res hidden camera/etc pointed at your screen/etc. Then all you need is a channel for that person to communicate with you. Be that a tiny bluetooth hearing aid in one ear, a phone/screen taped hidden on your leg/etc or to your existing screen. Basically somewhere not visible to any camera's monitoring you. So, when the person monitoring you detects you have answered something incorrectly they send you something to the effect "question #5's correct answer is Y because A,B,C". Then later you get a moment of insight and go back and fix the problem. In theory, unless your completely clueless the difference between a 2 and a 4 is just a couple questions so this would only have to happen a couple times during the whole test. Again, unless your completely clueless, if the proctor notices you fixing an incorrect answer and asks "why did you just change your answer" you give them something reasonable sounding. Heck for some of them, it might not even have to be the right answer, its completely possible for someone to get the right answer the wrong way in a multiple choice section. AKA, "I guessed on that one the first time and A & B seemed far fetched so I just picked C over D, but then later I questioned my assumption and decided it was B & C that seemed far fetched so I picked the remaining answer which was D rather than A". Anyway, I'm not sure the screen is needed. For a test that is 100% multiple choice, a buzzer in your shoe would be enough if it went off whenever you selected a wrong answer, and then pulsed a code to indicate the right answer.
  - jwilliamson 6y ago
    Wilfrid Laurier University in Canada is trying to make the students do this for exams this year.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
erichurkman 6y ago
This is the same reason I offer candidates remote screen share-based technical assessments. Part of what makes an effective engineer is mastery over tools: by putting you into Coderpad or Hacker Rank type tools, I'm handicapping you. Not everyone opts for that (maybe their local environment is messy, or they only have a locked down work device, etc), but I always make it an option. I've learned many things over the years watching other experts in their local environments as an interviewer. New packages, new shortcuts, new helper apps, ...
- neutronicus 6y ago
  Ha. I'm a Spacemacs user and I had to do the remote interview for my current gig in Google Docs. That was a bit frustrating.
pmiller2 6y ago
Wow, when did Pinterest implement that? I don't remember anything like that when I interviewed with them, but it was a couple years ago.
- whymauri 6y ago
  2017 through early 2018. I think (and hope) that they've changed the process.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Ah, okay, it was late 2018 when I interviewed there. I guess they got rid of it since.
saagarjha 6y ago
While I would agree that the environment is torture to use as a general-purpose screening tool, I’m sure there are jobs where the ability to get work done in a base Linux install is an asset :)

derefr 6y ago

> I'm sure certain trust factor guarantees prevent you from outsourcing the assignment overseas. Who said anything about overseas? Hire your classmate to sit down at your own PC to do it. That's the Hard Problem.

marcinzm 6y ago
I heard some companies, possibly only in India, required a webcam to be on the whole time and for you to rotate it around the room beforehand.
- noodlesUK 6y ago
  Yeah and this stops me pre-recording it how? I have a USB capture card that appears to the host machine just as a UVC webcam.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
    Ask a few questions, including at least one that's unpredictable.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    "Touch your left cheek. Now show me the ceiling. Smile at the camera. Blink three times quickly." If you can pre-record stuff like that without knowing what the sequence of requested events will be, I'm impressed.
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      Oooh, it would be cool to deepfake oneself on this. On an intentionally downsampled video feed it could be quite convincing.
  - zeta0134 6y ago
    When I took my RedHat RHCSA exam, the proctor was a live human, and I needed to move the webcam in time with their instructions. It was a basic around-the-room pass, but it covered anywhere that I could have stashed materials with which to cheat. From there, even if I did have external materials, it would have been pretty obvious that I was using them because my eyes would be focused offscreen for an extended period of time. Just the knowledge that another human being was proctoring the exam made the idea of attempting to cheat pretty far fetched. My body language would have given it away, and it wouldn't be easy to transition smoothly from the interactive setup to some kind of pre-recorded loop without it being easily detected. The kind of person who could successfully pull that off... well, could also probably pass the test on their own merits.
    - elliekelly 6y ago
      Did they ask for a photo of your laptop? Particularly behind the lid? That’s the one place your webcam can’t see so it seems like it would be the ideal spot to hide or mount a cheat sheet.
      - zeta0134 6y ago
        Ah, no but the exam was taken at a kiosk, not on my personal machine. I had only a few minutes in the room to get myself situated. The camera was USB, so I moved that around while the laptop remained stationary.
    - markrages 6y ago
      Could you have hidden a cable to another monitor/keyboard in another room?
    - StillBored 6y ago
      I suspect people are making this more complex than it needs to be. For most of these tests the difference between a good score and a poor one are just a few questions. So, the first step is just to actually take the test. The cheating bit would be having someone monitoring what your doing via a reasonably hi-res hidden camera/etc pointed at your screen/etc. Then all you need is a channel for that person to communicate with you. Be that a tiny bluetooth hearing aid in one ear, a phone/screen taped hidden on your leg/etc or to your existing screen. Basically somewhere not visible to any camera's monitoring you. So, when the person monitoring you detects you have answered something incorrectly they send you something to the effect "question #5's correct answer is Y because A,B,C". Then later you get a moment of insight and go back and fix the problem. In theory, unless your completely clueless the difference between a 2 and a 4 is just a couple questions so this would only have to happen a couple times during the whole test. Again, unless your completely clueless, if the proctor notices you fixing an incorrect answer and asks "why did you just change your answer" you give them something reasonable sounding. Heck for some of them, it might not even have to be the right answer, its completely possible for someone to get the right answer the wrong way in a multiple choice section. AKA, "I guessed on that one the first time and A & B seemed far fetched so I just picked C over D, but then later I questioned my assumption and decided it was B & C that seemed far fetched so I picked the remaining answer which was D rather than A". Anyway, I'm not sure the screen is needed. For a test that is 100% multiple choice, a buzzer in your shoe would be enough if it went off whenever you selected a wrong answer, and then pulsed a code to indicate the right answer.
- jwilliamson 6y ago
  Wilfrid Laurier University in Canada is trying to make the students do this for exams this year.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

erichurkman 6y ago

This is the same reason I offer candidates remote screen share-based technical assessments. Part of what makes an effective engineer is mastery over tools: by putting you into Coderpad or Hacker Rank type tools, I'm handicapping you. Not everyone opts for that (maybe their local environment is messy, or they only have a locked down work device, etc), but I always make it an option. I've learned many things over the years watching other experts in their local environments as an interviewer. New packages, new shortcuts, new helper apps, ...

neutronicus 6y ago
Ha. I'm a Spacemacs user and I had to do the remote interview for my current gig in Google Docs. That was a bit frustrating.

pmiller2 6y ago

Wow, when did Pinterest implement that? I don't remember anything like that when I interviewed with them, but it was a couple years ago.

whymauri 6y ago
2017 through early 2018. I think (and hope) that they've changed the process.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Ah, okay, it was late 2018 when I interviewed there. I guess they got rid of it since.

saagarjha 6y ago

While I would agree that the environment is torture to use as a general-purpose screening tool, I’m sure there are jobs where the ability to get work done in a base Linux install is an asset :)