5 ms·

So they're giving another candy, this time to developers who like/want to use Rust. Not bad for them. My personal view/situation is a bit different. I think th

by FpUser 6y ago

So they're giving another candy, this time to developers who like/want to use Rust. Not bad for them. My personal view/situation is a bit different. I think this is nothing more but yet another attempt by Microsoft to woo customers into a set of technologies/runtimes/APIs that are way more constrained that good ole Win32. On windows desktop GUI front I was using Delphi since 90s and barring few easily fixable hick ups what did work then works as a charm even now. So instead of wasting my time on their infinite ever changing set of front end tech I stayed on a proven path and that saved me a ton of money. And my desktop development is still the same with extra niceties as added multi platform ability and free and open source Delphi's alternative Lazarus/FreePascal combo.

alkonaut 6y ago
Rust with win32 has worked for years.
- FpUser 6y ago
  Did I say it does not? I think you've completely missed my point. By the number of downvotes it seems you are not alone. So maybe I was not clear enough.
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    Perhaps my answer didn't even suggest you did :) I don't even know any more.
rvz 6y ago
Well Microsoft has learned their lesson this time when they missed out on the smartphone industry and they are coming after winning back developers; and it seems to be working, especially when you give them "free stuff". Now that they have Github, NPM, Azure, WSL2 and WinUI its no surprise why they would want to allow other languages such as Rust to be easily used on Windows. Better support for Rust means more developers will hop on supporting Windows.
smt88 6y ago
Just to be clear, you think that adding support for another language is Microsoft's attempt to constrain Win32 developers?
- FpUser 6y ago
  I am asking you not to distort a context. That is not what I said. But just in case let me repeat it: Microsoft was for years and still is trying to move people from Win32 to a more constrained platform by using various means.
  - roblabla 6y ago
    You're thinking of UWP apps, which used to only allow winrt APIs, though nowadays UWP app can also access most of win32 APIs as well. UWP is more about the distribution model than the APIs (apps must be signed, are usually installed through the store, etc...) The winrt APIs can be used from traditional desktop apps just fine, and mixed with win32 from within the same executable. They don't constrain anything. UWP, however...
    - FpUser 6y ago
      "UWP app can also access most of win32 APIs as well" Most and all are 2 different things. I've discovered limits immediately after investigating possibility of porting one of my apps. The winrt APIs can be used from traditional desktop apps just fine WinRT based applications run in sandbox and have their own limits. None of what you say has any relation to my original POV.
      - roblabla 6y ago
        UWP apps run in a sandbox and have their own limits, e.g. most win32 api access requires special entitlements to work. WinRT is just a set of COM-based APIs, they don't inherently have any restrictioms on where or how they can be used.
pjmlp 6y ago
Well, you are free to switch to ReactOS in that case. I rather have the warm feeling that random app X won't snoop my user data files.
- FpUser 6y ago
  I can donate abacus to you. Just let me know where to mail it. More seriously. Windows does not prevent me from using Win32 so no need to use ReactOS and I did not ever have a single customer complaint about not using UWP/.NET/WinRT/Whatever tech. So in my areas of business where it concerns desktop apps that "warm feeling" means zilch fro a practical standpoint.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    So I have news for your, not only is Win32 sandbox a thing, it is part of Windows 10X experience which uses sandboxes for everything, and Windows 10X is also coming to a laptop near you in the future.
    - hu3 6y ago
      That's a big if and a big when. Unlike Apple, Microsoft is dead serious on maintaining compatibility with minimal hassle.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Kind of, try to run MS-DOS, Windows 3.x or some Windows 32 bit software on Windows 10 64bit Pro to see how far you will go. Or OpenGL/Vulkan in Win32 or UWP sandboxes for that matter.
        FpUser 6y ago
        I run OpenGL just fine in win32. Also have Vulkan based app (not my own) and runs just fine. Do not give a flying hoot whether it runs under UWP as I would not touch it with a wooden pole.

by FpUser 6y ago

alkonaut 6y ago

Rust with win32 has worked for years.

FpUser 6y ago
Did I say it does not? I think you've completely missed my point. By the number of downvotes it seems you are not alone. So maybe I was not clear enough.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Perhaps my answer didn't even suggest you did :) I don't even know any more.

rvz 6y ago

Well Microsoft has learned their lesson this time when they missed out on the smartphone industry and they are coming after winning back developers; and it seems to be working, especially when you give them "free stuff". Now that they have Github, NPM, Azure, WSL2 and WinUI its no surprise why they would want to allow other languages such as Rust to be easily used on Windows. Better support for Rust means more developers will hop on supporting Windows.

smt88 6y ago

Just to be clear, you think that adding support for another language is Microsoft's attempt to constrain Win32 developers?

FpUser 6y ago
I am asking you not to distort a context. That is not what I said. But just in case let me repeat it: Microsoft was for years and still is trying to move people from Win32 to a more constrained platform by using various means.
- roblabla 6y ago
  You're thinking of UWP apps, which used to only allow winrt APIs, though nowadays UWP app can also access most of win32 APIs as well. UWP is more about the distribution model than the APIs (apps must be signed, are usually installed through the store, etc...) The winrt APIs can be used from traditional desktop apps just fine, and mixed with win32 from within the same executable. They don't constrain anything. UWP, however...
  - FpUser 6y ago
    "UWP app can also access most of win32 APIs as well" Most and all are 2 different things. I've discovered limits immediately after investigating possibility of porting one of my apps. The winrt APIs can be used from traditional desktop apps just fine WinRT based applications run in sandbox and have their own limits. None of what you say has any relation to my original POV.
    - roblabla 6y ago
      UWP apps run in a sandbox and have their own limits, e.g. most win32 api access requires special entitlements to work. WinRT is just a set of COM-based APIs, they don't inherently have any restrictioms on where or how they can be used.

pjmlp 6y ago

Well, you are free to switch to ReactOS in that case. I rather have the warm feeling that random app X won't snoop my user data files.

FpUser 6y ago
I can donate abacus to you. Just let me know where to mail it. More seriously. Windows does not prevent me from using Win32 so no need to use ReactOS and I did not ever have a single customer complaint about not using UWP/.NET/WinRT/Whatever tech. So in my areas of business where it concerns desktop apps that "warm feeling" means zilch fro a practical standpoint.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  So I have news for your, not only is Win32 sandbox a thing, it is part of Windows 10X experience which uses sandboxes for everything, and Windows 10X is also coming to a laptop near you in the future.
  - hu3 6y ago
    That's a big if and a big when. Unlike Apple, Microsoft is dead serious on maintaining compatibility with minimal hassle.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Kind of, try to run MS-DOS, Windows 3.x or some Windows 32 bit software on Windows 10 64bit Pro to see how far you will go. Or OpenGL/Vulkan in Win32 or UWP sandboxes for that matter.
      - FpUser 6y ago
        I run OpenGL just fine in win32. Also have Vulkan based app (not my own) and runs just fine. Do not give a flying hoot whether it runs under UWP as I would not touch it with a wooden pole.