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That sucks for for a lot of people, but I don't think Uber/Lyft and many other startup afford to pay what they have been paying. I can understand google, facebo

That sucks for for a lot of people, but I don't think Uber/Lyft and many other startup afford to pay what they have been paying. I can understand google, facebook, apple etc. paying 300-500k salaries, but how can companies that don't generate that kind of cash flow afford to do the same?

chosenbreed37 6y ago
I think they generate cash flows. It's just that they're not as profitable as the others you mentioned. They've got be badly affected by the pandemic and the fallout. It's going to be a long way back...
- samfisher83 6y ago
  They have generated negative cash flow from operations for the last few years. Also giving away stock is diluting investors.
marcinzm 6y ago
How can they not? Its supply and demand, Facebook and Google are setting the price of supply for top engineers. If Uber and Lyft want those types of engineers then they have to pay what the market demands. The assumption being that five 100k engineers won't be able to solve complex problems as well as one 500k engineer.
- almost_usual 6y ago
  The 300k-500k range is risky RSU paper money outside of FAANG. Uber and Lyft engineers know that now. Pretend money met reality.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    There's always risk that the stock price will drop due to a large scale economic event. Lyft and Uber were hit particularly hard this time due to their markets however in past recessions large tech companies weren't immune except long term. As for layoffs, it's still only a small percentage of Lyft and Uber engineers. So not that risky all things considered and they did pay better than FAANG to make up for that.
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  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Pretend money met reality. Do you realise you can sell it to get real money? If you were doing that every year and treating your RSUs are a normal part of your compensation then you would have been taking home your entire half-million or so pre-tax as an engineer at Uber. That's not pretend money.
    - almost_usual 6y ago
      > Do you realise you can sell it to get real money? You do realize they’re worthless until you vest right? I’m pretty sure Uber and Lyft are on a one year cliff. That’s one year of risk and what do you know, those RSUs just vaporized.. The only non FAANG RSUs making money now are real tech companies, not these service industries masquerading as tech.
      - marcinzm 6y ago
        Lyft removed the vesting cliff for those laid off, gave them 10+ weeks of severance and accelerated vesting of RSUs. The only issue is that the stock price is down 40% but recessions can do that to any company regardless of size. Still worth quiet a bit even with that drop. So, what's your point again?
        almost_usual 6y ago
        The point is you signed up for 400k got 300k at best assuming you’re at a 200k base. You could have joined FB and probably gotten a 100k signing bonus on top of what you had in RSUs and you’d still have a job. These companies were masquerading and pretending they can compete with FAANG, they can’t.
        marcinzm 6y ago
        If you had a Facebook offer and it's been under a year then it's almost certainly still valid. So you sell the accelerated vesting RSUs, cash in the severance and join Facebook. Given the accelerated vesting and severance you're going to make about as much as originally expected. Not sure why you consider getting laid off a problem for someone who has Facebook offers in the recent past. It's the people still employed at Lyft that are in a harder position versus having taken a Facebook offer. That's however a quirk of the pandemic, in any other recession your Facebook RSUs would be tanking in value as well.
  - salamigg 6y ago
    Just to give you some real numbers as an eng at Uber: The stock is down roughly 27% of what my pre-IPO offer was. TC-wise, I’m sitting at ~390k vs ~440k. Roughly 12% less than what I was expecting. It sucks but it’s not the end of the world.
chrisseaton 6y ago
> I can understand google, facebook, apple etc. paying 300-500k salaries, but how can companies that don't generate that kind of cash flow afford to do the same? You just explained it yourself. It's either pay 300-500k or the people you need to hire will go Apple instead. There's no option to pay less if you need highly competent people.

chosenbreed37 6y ago

I think they generate cash flows. It's just that they're not as profitable as the others you mentioned. They've got be badly affected by the pandemic and the fallout. It's going to be a long way back...

samfisher83 6y ago
They have generated negative cash flow from operations for the last few years. Also giving away stock is diluting investors.

marcinzm 6y ago

How can they not? Its supply and demand, Facebook and Google are setting the price of supply for top engineers. If Uber and Lyft want those types of engineers then they have to pay what the market demands. The assumption being that five 100k engineers won't be able to solve complex problems as well as one 500k engineer.

almost_usual 6y ago
The 300k-500k range is risky RSU paper money outside of FAANG. Uber and Lyft engineers know that now. Pretend money met reality.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  There's always risk that the stock price will drop due to a large scale economic event. Lyft and Uber were hit particularly hard this time due to their markets however in past recessions large tech companies weren't immune except long term. As for layoffs, it's still only a small percentage of Lyft and Uber engineers. So not that risky all things considered and they did pay better than FAANG to make up for that.
  - deleted 6y ago
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  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Pretend money met reality. Do you realise you can sell it to get real money? If you were doing that every year and treating your RSUs are a normal part of your compensation then you would have been taking home your entire half-million or so pre-tax as an engineer at Uber. That's not pretend money.
  - almost_usual 6y ago
    > Do you realise you can sell it to get real money? You do realize they’re worthless until you vest right? I’m pretty sure Uber and Lyft are on a one year cliff. That’s one year of risk and what do you know, those RSUs just vaporized.. The only non FAANG RSUs making money now are real tech companies, not these service industries masquerading as tech.
    - marcinzm 6y ago
      Lyft removed the vesting cliff for those laid off, gave them 10+ weeks of severance and accelerated vesting of RSUs. The only issue is that the stock price is down 40% but recessions can do that to any company regardless of size. Still worth quiet a bit even with that drop. So, what's your point again?
      - almost_usual 6y ago
        The point is you signed up for 400k got 300k at best assuming you’re at a 200k base. You could have joined FB and probably gotten a 100k signing bonus on top of what you had in RSUs and you’d still have a job. These companies were masquerading and pretending they can compete with FAANG, they can’t.
        marcinzm 6y ago
        If you had a Facebook offer and it's been under a year then it's almost certainly still valid. So you sell the accelerated vesting RSUs, cash in the severance and join Facebook. Given the accelerated vesting and severance you're going to make about as much as originally expected. Not sure why you consider getting laid off a problem for someone who has Facebook offers in the recent past. It's the people still employed at Lyft that are in a harder position versus having taken a Facebook offer. That's however a quirk of the pandemic, in any other recession your Facebook RSUs would be tanking in value as well.
- salamigg 6y ago
  Just to give you some real numbers as an eng at Uber: The stock is down roughly 27% of what my pre-IPO offer was. TC-wise, I’m sitting at ~390k vs ~440k. Roughly 12% less than what I was expecting. It sucks but it’s not the end of the world.

chrisseaton 6y ago

> I can understand google, facebook, apple etc. paying 300-500k salaries, but how can companies that don't generate that kind of cash flow afford to do the same? You just explained it yourself. It's either pay 300-500k or the people you need to hire will go Apple instead. There's no option to pay less if you need highly competent people.