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Ask HN: My site isn't sexy or social, but I'm very proud of it: what's next?
Hey HN.
A month ago, if asked at a party what I did I would not even mention that I’ve spent over two hundred hours in the last eight months learning web development and building a start up. I’d say that I’m an applied math major who wants to go into biomathematics but doesn’t want to use that degree for anything, never revealing that what I really want to do is run a web business.
Soon after the last time I hid my true passion during a conversation I decided to release my web app no matter how unfinished I felt it to be. Since the release I’ve received several users per day (although I don’t think I’ve gotten more than a few dedicated users) at a total cost of just under $30. Importantly, though, because of my ads I’ve been contacted by the director of education of a major university to see if she should recommend the app to students or not. We’re still talking, but this could be what brings the first good number of users to my site.
The app isn’t sexy and it isn’t going to change the world. Simply put, it’s a grade calculator and tracker. After using spreadsheets to figure out my grades for too long, I decided that there was at least a small need for a web app. Achiever, as I decided to call it, was born in February.
You can find it at http://www.getachiever.com
I’m curious, what do I do next? There is still technical work to do - the completion of the landing page design, the implementation of recurring billing - but I have arrived at what I believe to be the true challenge of web business: getting people to actually use my creation. Since it’s not a social app, I can’t create serious viral effects. Would, perhaps, letting users post their grades bring traffic? Should I try to market the app instead to universities?
A lot of the apps submitted to HN are sexy and took 24 hours to make and, seemingly, tend to include the letter three in the name. I didn’t want to go after sexy and social and business model-less (look where Twitter is this week). I wanted to make a well-built tool, like Basecamp, and charge people for it. I hope you still find my story interesting.
EDIT: Seems like the site's down. Hmm.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- Mz 16y agoI like it. I think you can find a way to make it viral. "Sexy" is a matter of perception. I see no reason this can't become what the Cool Kids in College all want. You need someone (like me) who is completely neurotic about their grades and feels the need to call their sister and have a nervous breakdown for 30 minutes because, gasp, my first grade on my first paper after returning to college 8 years later was below a 95 (clearly the end of the world). This person also needs to be someone that other people like/look up to/want to emulate for some reason. (This was me at one time in some circles on the internet where I got treated like a "rock star" and compared to one -- though it definitely wasn't me in high school.) In some geeky circles, someone who is smart and grade obsessed can also be someone "cool" that others are enthralled by. Find those folks. If they will use it, others will use it. Rather than sharing grades, I think I would find a means to share some measure of what value the product brought. One possibility: Show that their grades improve when they use this. Another possibility: Show that they stress less about school now that they are clear where they stand at all times. Another possible angle: Now that they are stressing less, they have more of a life because they are clear what they need to do and can set aside the whole obsessive grade focus on Friday night (or whatever) and have a little fun. This last idea might need some additional support, like some kind of study tracker/support tools in that regard. But that could be seen as a direction to grow in. Disclaimer: I'm only on here due to insomnia. If someone completely shoots me down, listen to them instead. Its possible I'm incoherent. Thanks.
- dmazin 16y agoThanks so much for the kind feedback. I do want to be able to show that students' GPAs improve after they sign up for Achiever (although it could turn out that there is no correlation). As for sharing that there is a possible improvement to Achiever, well, like you said I'd have to think about a way to implement that.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- dmazin 16y agoPS: clickable!: http://www.getachiever.com http://www.getachiever.com
- hparra 16y agoI like it too. You took a small problem and offered a solution to it. It won't change the world, but it will probably change someone's day. You will eventually be able to determine that someone is doing well or poor in their classes. Why not use this to recommend tutors or tutoring jobs? BTW, Your honesty and courage to face rejection inspires me. Thanks.
- dmazin 16y agoThat's interesting. Do you mean to allow tutors to track the success of their students? And thanks so much.
- hparra 16y agoIf your system is registering a C average for a student in Calculus perhaps your system can recommend a tutor. This is where referrals and sponsorships come in ($). Or perhaps someone in that same class. There's a social networking aspects right there. There's tons of interesting things you could do! I'm curious if anyone else thinks that charging for this may not be the best approach. Anyone? (Wait, you're in the bible belt of SoCal? Is that South OC?)
- maxbrown 16y agoCollege students may be the only demographic to consume more ramen noodles than bootstrapping start-up founders (willing to be proven wrong!). They'll expect this to be free and most likely won't pay unless they see incredible added value. I really like the tutoring angle though - targeted tutoring referrals seems like a great way to monetize something like this.
- dmazin 16y agoThat's a pretty good idea, but I need a good user base before I can experiment with that, I think. Traditional freemium may indeed not work for this. I've seen examples of freemium working for b2b services but charging customers, especially students, may really not work out. This is one of the things I've wanted to find out for a while now. It's near the OC but worse: The Inland Empire.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- michaelpinto 16y ago1. I'd listen to some actual students and find out what the selling points are to them, and do some A/B headline testing ("Pain-free grade calculation" seems better than "Do you know what your grades are?") 2. That url is terrible — you need the words "grade tracker" in it: http://www.wolf-howl.com/seo/how-to-choose-a-new-domain/ http://www.wolf-howl.com/seo/how-to-choose-a-new-domain/ 3. You should allow a signup via Facebook (especially for college kids) 4. Maybe have a simple screenshot video instead of those stills?
- dmazin 16y agoWhen I was starting out, I was so excited to do A/B testing. I was going to A/B every word on every page. The truth of the matter is, A/B is worthless when starting out because you need a hundred conversions or so for both A and B to have statistical significance. I'm getting less than 20 visits per day, but with a very good conversion rate, actually. As for the URL - well, I'm not really into making a micro ISV/SEO-blatant site. Facebook sign up - I really should have that. I have personally never clicked a landing page video. I think the only example I know of it actually being a good decision is Dropbox. I want to see a description with images and text (something my page lacks, really).
- michaelpinto 16y ago1. I don't mean A/B testing on the web — I mean in person. It's part of figuring out your pitch — which is really figuring out what the site is. 2. Having a good url is a form of communication, or branding. It took my over a minute to understand what your site was — people start with the name of the site and work their way down. If you hear of a url and don't get what the site is off the bat you've failed before you've started. 3. You need to learn what your personal preferences are don't matter — so while geeks may like pictures and text normal people might not. Geeks loved MS-DOS which is why Windows conquered the world...
- dmazin 16y ago1. Good point. 2. I get your point, but are you talking about choosing something like achievergradetracker.com for the primary URL? 3. You have another good point, however I think that personal preference is more important than people admit. If we didn't infuse some personal preference, especially for aesthetics, into web design the whole web would look like fucking infomercials, which probably convert like Jesus. I guess that's kind of irrelevant as a video walkthrough is really something I have no good reason for not trying.
- naithemilkman 16y agoI think it looks sexy :) Why won't you mention your 200 hours? Conversation killer with the chicks?
- dmazin 16y agoThanks! I really meant more that it's not a sexy idea. I don't mind the internal design myself, although it could of course be better. To be honest, I'd been refusing to take this project seriously until it had some outside validation. Actually, I still don't call it a start up or business as it's neither registered nor has a revenue.
- lylejohnson 16y agoThankfully, I am long past the point where I have to worry about my GPA. But there was absolutely a time in my life when I would have used something like this, had it been available. I can tell you that my wife's a schoolteacher, and that her school system has a web-based system where parents can log in and check on their kids' grades. She has a lot of parents who check that site religiously. All that is to say that while it may not be a "sexy" site, you've definitely hit on a useful idea here. Good luck!
- dmazin 16y agoIs it Moodle? There are already plenty of ways to check one's grades, actually. Colleges often use Blackboard - although I think students and professors alike would agree that using Blackboard is only a little bit better than having cancer. I want to fill in the gap where there is no system offered or it's incomplete, leaving students on their own. Of course, there are already two players - Schoolhouse, a quite sexy (if over-featured) Mac app, and some outdated online grade tracker.
- lylejohnson 16y agoIt's called iNow (or maybe STI iNow). Am having trouble finding a link for the company because most of the Google search results are for various school systems that have implemented iNow.
- dmazin 16y agoHere it is: http://www.sti-k12.com/publicsis1.asp http://www.sti-k12.com/publicsis1.asp Interestingly, I've had a family friend starting out as a teacher say that she can't find a good, intuitive gradebook. Maybe there's a market for that as well. I think it's fair to guess that this kind of software is made for buyers, not teachers, and may not address their needs very well. I could be totally wrong.
- lylejohnson 16y ago> I think it's fair to guess that this kind of software is made for buyers, not teachers, and may not address their needs very well. I could be totally wrong. No, you're spot on. She hates working with iNow, and we have yet to talk to a teacher who likes working with it. Seems safe to assume that the buyer was someone who will never have to use it.
- redrory 16y agoHey, Firstly congrats. Getting your first app "out" is hard. You seemed to do that with flying colors :) What's the technology behind the site? Do you have a blog? I'll love to hear more send me an email (my HN username at gmail.)
- dmazin 16y agoThanks! I built it on Rails. After building out a good amount of functitonality in PHP I decided to take a chance with Rails. Amazing decision as it was a huge return for the time investment (45-ish hours to learn). I don't have a blog, as blogs don't seem to have that much worth in terms of marketing unless they are amazing. I'm opinionated, sure, but you can find most of those opinions on Signal vs Noise :)
- exline 16y agoI think there is a viral angle. There were a group of friends at college, all CS majors and we competed on our grades. We all wanted to one up each other. I can see the ability to have a score board of some kind where you can share your grades with friends. This could help spread the word a bit.
- dmazin 16y agoI'm a little scared of being too social.
- myearwood 16y agoWhy?
- dmazin 16y agoThe thing I'm scared of is being Zynga and asking people to share every little thing and to congratulate others when they get good grades. To help the app spread, I need to implement something social such as sharing grades, but I'm going to be careful as to not go too far.
- myearwood 16y agoOk . I have a lot of respect for that approach.