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I do it like that, it's always met with excitement like "oh wow, all these other companies were telling us how hard and costly and lengthy it will be, thank you

I do it like that, it's always met with excitement like "oh wow, all these other companies were telling us how hard and costly and lengthy it will be, thank you"

smitty1e 6y ago
Do you ever have the experience of doing a prototype, and the customer looks at it and says: "Great work. Put it into production"?
- dylan604 6y ago
  every. damn. time. i'm a freelancer, so there's not a dev team behind me. the client likes what i made, and wants to start using it. realizing this, i've started spending much more time on the UI/UX (even though i'm not one of those guys) to at least make the tool useable in a dogfooding way.
  - MauranKilom 6y ago
    Maybe it's not 100% relevant to your case, and maybe you've already seen it, but just in case: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret-revealed/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret...
    - john-tells-all 6y ago
      This article is spectacular, thank you! Joel explains that it's hard explaining Dev work to nondevs, e.g. the Business. They think the UI/screenshot is the software, which has a number of consequences. As a DevOps, I also see a similar challenge explaining Infra/DevOps to Developers :)
    - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
      Joel Spolsky is my hero. There are so many nails he’s been hitting on the head for decades. Engineering (to me) is a craft; not just a vocation. I also think that the software industry’s Ponce de Leon obsession might be part of the problem. Younger folks tend to “dream big,” which I think may be a factor behind the ageism. “They haven’t had some grizzled old fart tell them that it can’t be done!” is the argument that I’ve heard. Tru dat, but one of the things that older folks have, is experience getting things done, often, highly optimized, polished, and of excellent quality. That tends to require a lot of tenacity and patience. Shipping is boring. Ever watch a building go up? A good prefab looks complete after three months, but doesn’t open for another nine months. It looks awesome and shiny, but is still behind a rent-a-fence. What gives? That’s because all that interior work; the finish carpentry, the drywall, the painting, etc., take forever, and these are the parts of the building that see everyday use, so they need to be absolutely spot-on. The outside is mostly a pigeon toilet. It doesn’t need to be as complete; a solid frame and watertight is sufficient. They just needed it to keep the rain out, while the really skilled craftspeople got their jobs done. I like to make stuff polished, tested and complete. I don’t like making pigeon toilets.

I do it like that, it's always met with excitement like "oh wow, all these other companies were telling us how hard and costly and lengthy it will be, thank you"

smitty1e 6y ago

Do you ever have the experience of doing a prototype, and the customer looks at it and says: "Great work. Put it into production"?

dylan604 6y ago
every. damn. time. i'm a freelancer, so there's not a dev team behind me. the client likes what i made, and wants to start using it. realizing this, i've started spending much more time on the UI/UX (even though i'm not one of those guys) to at least make the tool useable in a dogfooding way.
- MauranKilom 6y ago
  Maybe it's not 100% relevant to your case, and maybe you've already seen it, but just in case: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret-revealed/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret...
  - john-tells-all 6y ago
    This article is spectacular, thank you! Joel explains that it's hard explaining Dev work to nondevs, e.g. the Business. They think the UI/screenshot is the software, which has a number of consequences. As a DevOps, I also see a similar challenge explaining Infra/DevOps to Developers :)
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    Joel Spolsky is my hero. There are so many nails he’s been hitting on the head for decades. Engineering (to me) is a craft; not just a vocation. I also think that the software industry’s Ponce de Leon obsession might be part of the problem. Younger folks tend to “dream big,” which I think may be a factor behind the ageism. “They haven’t had some grizzled old fart tell them that it can’t be done!” is the argument that I’ve heard. Tru dat, but one of the things that older folks have, is experience getting things done, often, highly optimized, polished, and of excellent quality. That tends to require a lot of tenacity and patience. Shipping is boring. Ever watch a building go up? A good prefab looks complete after three months, but doesn’t open for another nine months. It looks awesome and shiny, but is still behind a rent-a-fence. What gives? That’s because all that interior work; the finish carpentry, the drywall, the painting, etc., take forever, and these are the parts of the building that see everyday use, so they need to be absolutely spot-on. The outside is mostly a pigeon toilet. It doesn’t need to be as complete; a solid frame and watertight is sufficient. They just needed it to keep the rain out, while the really skilled craftspeople got their jobs done. I like to make stuff polished, tested and complete. I don’t like making pigeon toilets.