8 ms·

Reverse engineering the OP-1 drum patch

109 points by qrv3w 6y ago

mkesper 6y ago
Nice work automating some tedious work. But come on, that spec is only 31 pages. Read it.
tleb_ 6y ago
Looks like a hug of death, see https://web.archive.org/web/20200519073029/https://schollz.com/blog/op1/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200519073029/https://schollz.c...
fractalf 6y ago
Nice article. The synth, though cool, is way overpriced. Just about doubled since release. Nice if you have one, not worth the money to buy now though
- robotmay 6y ago
  Yeah it's one of those devices that I would love for noodling about with but I can get so much more for the same money. They're ~£1000 here at the moment.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  Yes it's expensive but it's super easy to sell. It's also my only electronic purchase that got more value with time. It's so cool that I would recommend to buy it at the current price if you can afford it.
  - robotmay 6y ago
    I probably would have bought it if it was still around the £800 mark but it's now up over £1000 and that's just insanely expensive considering what else is available at that price point. I'd love to see a proper competitor to the OP-1 come out to force their price down.
    - speedgoose 6y ago
      Well if you don't see a proper competitor to the OP-1, there is nothing else available at any price point. Yes you can buy other instruments for 1000 pounds, but not anything like an OP-1. Me too I would love to see proper competitors.
      - piva00 6y ago
        My issue with the OP-1 is that it's fun. And that's about it, you can't find anything exactly like it because it doesn't do anything super well, it's a very fun portable synth/groovebox and with its original price it deserved all the praise but after the new parts sourcing almost doubled its price I don't see any reason to have it, it does a lot of stuff but all of them are a bit half-assed and at that price point I don't want half-assed sounds.
- Rockslide 6y ago
  Yes it's expensive in some ways and in others it isn't. Can you get a better synth for the money? Sure. Can you get a better sampler for the money? Sure. Can you get a better sequencer for the money? Sure. Can you get a decent synth, sequencer, and sampler for the money? Well, not necessarily. I'm not saying the price is entirely justified. You certainly pay a lot for the "brand". But on the other hand it might not be as overpriced as one might think by intuition. Plus, as a owner, I hope price will only go further up, or at least stay on that level :)
  - capableweb 6y ago
    > Plus, as a owner, I hope price will only go further up, or at least stay on that level :) How does a high price benefit you as you own it already? Seems a bit egoistic. Maybe you're planning to sell it? Then I would understand your sentiment, but otherwise, seems a bit strange.
    - fxtentacle 6y ago
      If everyone uses it, it will sound too generic to listeners. That's why mainstream artists hire sound designers to get a never heard before sound for their synth.
      - capableweb 6y ago
        You're overestimating the power of the hardware and underestimating the value of creative patching when it comes to synths. As long as you get control over the patching, you'll be able to create "unique" sounds as much as you want.
    - Rockslide 6y ago
      Spending money doesn't "hurt" as much when the goods you spent it on don't lose value, that's all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I might regret having bought it if you can get it for 200 bucks in 5 years. I will not regret it if you can sell it used for the same price as today.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- fit2rule 6y ago
  I have an OP-1 and a ton of other synths - its a very handy thing to throw in the bag and take to jam sessions, but beyond that - definitely overpriced. I get just as much fun from an Axoloti synth, with far more power... of course, I had to build my own hardware interface around it, but that's just fun too.
rjmunro 6y ago
I would be interested to know what teenage engineering say about this. Hopefully they'll approve and provide more details. If it's "You will void your warranty", then I would avoid buying from them.
- tomashubelbauer 6y ago
  TE are known to not be fans of modifying OP-1. The OP-1 repacker project which is used to patch and load new firmware had its maintainers reach out to TE on their official forums and the thread got deleted by admins if I'm remembering things correctly (it was a while since I hacked on the OP-1). In any case, they definitely did not publicly endorse modding the OP-1s and they do not like to see it done.
  - gnu8 6y ago
    Evidently, only they are allowed to do engineering. The rest of us are expected to shut up and buy the products.
  - devin 6y ago
    Yeah, and dumping firmware on OP-Z has proven extremely difficult if not impossible. It's encrypted in AES + CBC with an unknown key size. You can upload unencrypted firmware, but if you can't decrypt the original, well... good luck.
  - wayvey 6y ago
    TE wasn't very exited about the modding but I think they we're more annoyed by the OP-1 beta firmware leak. I'm the one who wrote op1repacker. There was never any pressure from them to stop modding the firmware and as far as I know no thread was deleted. Main thread is still here, it's a long but interesting read https://op-forums.com/t/custom-firmware-on-the-op-1/4283 https://op-forums.com/t/custom-firmware-on-the-op-1/4283
- gnatman 6y ago
  On one hand, I think companies should make their hardware easy to hack on- all sorts of cool creativity comes out of those projects. On the other hand, I think of the customer support team we have at my small company, and understand that TE (or other companies) might not have the bandwidth or skill set in that department to help customers that are bricking their devices in novel ways. I’m curious how to balance that.
tmountain 6y ago
How hard would it be to develop an open hardware platform to deliver something similar to an OP-1? Do any such projects exist?
- lalos 6y ago
  This is close enough https://github.com/OTTO-project/OTTO https://github.com/OTTO-project/OTTO and https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle
  - Wesxdz 6y ago
    Mmm, these might be a nice start, but I don't think they're in the same tier as the OP-1. The appeal for me is the world class integrated visual design and build quality.
    - fit2rule 6y ago
      Get an Axoloti synth, add your own preferred world class visual design and build quality: http://www.axoloti.com http://www.axoloti.com My favourite is the Chlorophyll box, which just kicks so much ass: https://www.filipruisl.com/work/chlorophyll/ https://www.filipruisl.com/work/chlorophyll/
      - Wesxdz 6y ago
        The Axoloti looks great! I mainly have the OP-1 to make a chiptune OST, but Axoloti Patcher seems like it would be more functional. What I really want is something that can emulate old gaming console chiptunes and be portable.
        fit2rule 6y ago
        I have an Open Pandora which has pretty much every old gaming console onboard. ;). Maybe you can find one - they're amazing machines, or .. get a Pyra, which is an update of the concept by the same folks. https://openpandora.org https://openpandora.org Or, maybe what you want is Anaologue Pocket? https://www.analogue.co/pocket/ https://www.analogue.co/pocket/ Dunno if its shipping yet though.. Maybe Axoloti is the answer. Its a very nice bit of hardware, I should use mine for things more often...
Wesxdz 6y ago
I bought an OP-1 and it is the best product I've ever used. However, I was wildly disappointed to find the MIDI control input doesn't work with ALSA sequencer consistently (I need this functionality for a programming side project). I submited a support request, but it's kind of frustrating that I don't have the capability to just fix the firmware myself. (Specifically aseqdump only works after restarting the computer and RtMidi qmidiin doesn't print anything and also prevents aseqdump from working if called..., if anyone knows why I'd love to understand)
- qrv3w 6y ago
  That's too bad! I've used the MIDI and it works well albeit I've only written things in using WebMIDI not the ALSA sequencer. I'm really curious about your side project, would you mind sharing it?
  - Wesxdz 6y ago
    For sure! I'm working on an open source gameplay framework and one of the 'upgrades' I'm planning is MIDI based manipulation of trees of gameplay values at runtime from knobs. You can read more here https://wesxdz.dev/bicycle-mango https://wesxdz.dev/bicycle-mango
    - qrv3w 6y ago
      Cool, thanks for sharing!!
- Wesxdz 6y ago
  I SOLVED IT~! I was trying to run one of my old games using wine and SDL debug logged that MIDI would not work because of 'Unknown SEQ default' (sorry for lack of detail, I took an image of the output instead of saving the text -_-) Installing the amd64 version of libasound2-plugins resolve the issue. Not sure why this is not the default on KDE Neon... https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+question/672680 https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+qu...

109 points by qrv3w 6y ago

Nice work automating some tedious work. But come on, that spec is only 31 pages. Read it.

Looks like a hug of death, see https://web.archive.org/web/20200519073029/https://schollz.com/blog/op1/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200519073029/https://schollz.c...

fractalf 6y ago

Nice article. The synth, though cool, is way overpriced. Just about doubled since release. Nice if you have one, not worth the money to buy now though

robotmay 6y ago
Yeah it's one of those devices that I would love for noodling about with but I can get so much more for the same money. They're ~£1000 here at the moment.
speedgoose 6y ago
Yes it's expensive but it's super easy to sell. It's also my only electronic purchase that got more value with time. It's so cool that I would recommend to buy it at the current price if you can afford it.
- robotmay 6y ago
  I probably would have bought it if it was still around the £800 mark but it's now up over £1000 and that's just insanely expensive considering what else is available at that price point. I'd love to see a proper competitor to the OP-1 come out to force their price down.
  - speedgoose 6y ago
    Well if you don't see a proper competitor to the OP-1, there is nothing else available at any price point. Yes you can buy other instruments for 1000 pounds, but not anything like an OP-1. Me too I would love to see proper competitors.
    - piva00 6y ago
      My issue with the OP-1 is that it's fun. And that's about it, you can't find anything exactly like it because it doesn't do anything super well, it's a very fun portable synth/groovebox and with its original price it deserved all the praise but after the new parts sourcing almost doubled its price I don't see any reason to have it, it does a lot of stuff but all of them are a bit half-assed and at that price point I don't want half-assed sounds.
Rockslide 6y ago
Yes it's expensive in some ways and in others it isn't. Can you get a better synth for the money? Sure. Can you get a better sampler for the money? Sure. Can you get a better sequencer for the money? Sure. Can you get a decent synth, sequencer, and sampler for the money? Well, not necessarily. I'm not saying the price is entirely justified. You certainly pay a lot for the "brand". But on the other hand it might not be as overpriced as one might think by intuition. Plus, as a owner, I hope price will only go further up, or at least stay on that level :)
- capableweb 6y ago
  > Plus, as a owner, I hope price will only go further up, or at least stay on that level :) How does a high price benefit you as you own it already? Seems a bit egoistic. Maybe you're planning to sell it? Then I would understand your sentiment, but otherwise, seems a bit strange.
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    If everyone uses it, it will sound too generic to listeners. That's why mainstream artists hire sound designers to get a never heard before sound for their synth.
    - capableweb 6y ago
      You're overestimating the power of the hardware and underestimating the value of creative patching when it comes to synths. As long as you get control over the patching, you'll be able to create "unique" sounds as much as you want.
  - Rockslide 6y ago
    Spending money doesn't "hurt" as much when the goods you spent it on don't lose value, that's all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I might regret having bought it if you can get it for 200 bucks in 5 years. I will not regret it if you can sell it used for the same price as today.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
fit2rule 6y ago
I have an OP-1 and a ton of other synths - its a very handy thing to throw in the bag and take to jam sessions, but beyond that - definitely overpriced. I get just as much fun from an Axoloti synth, with far more power... of course, I had to build my own hardware interface around it, but that's just fun too.

rjmunro 6y ago

I would be interested to know what teenage engineering say about this. Hopefully they'll approve and provide more details. If it's "You will void your warranty", then I would avoid buying from them.

tomashubelbauer 6y ago
TE are known to not be fans of modifying OP-1. The OP-1 repacker project which is used to patch and load new firmware had its maintainers reach out to TE on their official forums and the thread got deleted by admins if I'm remembering things correctly (it was a while since I hacked on the OP-1). In any case, they definitely did not publicly endorse modding the OP-1s and they do not like to see it done.
- gnu8 6y ago
  Evidently, only they are allowed to do engineering. The rest of us are expected to shut up and buy the products.
- devin 6y ago
  Yeah, and dumping firmware on OP-Z has proven extremely difficult if not impossible. It's encrypted in AES + CBC with an unknown key size. You can upload unencrypted firmware, but if you can't decrypt the original, well... good luck.
- wayvey 6y ago
  TE wasn't very exited about the modding but I think they we're more annoyed by the OP-1 beta firmware leak. I'm the one who wrote op1repacker. There was never any pressure from them to stop modding the firmware and as far as I know no thread was deleted. Main thread is still here, it's a long but interesting read https://op-forums.com/t/custom-firmware-on-the-op-1/4283 https://op-forums.com/t/custom-firmware-on-the-op-1/4283
gnatman 6y ago
On one hand, I think companies should make their hardware easy to hack on- all sorts of cool creativity comes out of those projects. On the other hand, I think of the customer support team we have at my small company, and understand that TE (or other companies) might not have the bandwidth or skill set in that department to help customers that are bricking their devices in novel ways. I’m curious how to balance that.

tmountain 6y ago

How hard would it be to develop an open hardware platform to deliver something similar to an OP-1? Do any such projects exist?

lalos 6y ago
This is close enough https://github.com/OTTO-project/OTTO https://github.com/OTTO-project/OTTO and https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle
- Wesxdz 6y ago
  Mmm, these might be a nice start, but I don't think they're in the same tier as the OP-1. The appeal for me is the world class integrated visual design and build quality.
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    Get an Axoloti synth, add your own preferred world class visual design and build quality: http://www.axoloti.com http://www.axoloti.com My favourite is the Chlorophyll box, which just kicks so much ass: https://www.filipruisl.com/work/chlorophyll/ https://www.filipruisl.com/work/chlorophyll/
    - Wesxdz 6y ago
      The Axoloti looks great! I mainly have the OP-1 to make a chiptune OST, but Axoloti Patcher seems like it would be more functional. What I really want is something that can emulate old gaming console chiptunes and be portable.
      - fit2rule 6y ago
        I have an Open Pandora which has pretty much every old gaming console onboard. ;). Maybe you can find one - they're amazing machines, or .. get a Pyra, which is an update of the concept by the same folks. https://openpandora.org https://openpandora.org Or, maybe what you want is Anaologue Pocket? https://www.analogue.co/pocket/ https://www.analogue.co/pocket/ Dunno if its shipping yet though.. Maybe Axoloti is the answer. Its a very nice bit of hardware, I should use mine for things more often...

Wesxdz 6y ago

I bought an OP-1 and it is the best product I've ever used. However, I was wildly disappointed to find the MIDI control input doesn't work with ALSA sequencer consistently (I need this functionality for a programming side project). I submited a support request, but it's kind of frustrating that I don't have the capability to just fix the firmware myself. (Specifically aseqdump only works after restarting the computer and RtMidi qmidiin doesn't print anything and also prevents aseqdump from working if called..., if anyone knows why I'd love to understand)

qrv3w 6y ago
That's too bad! I've used the MIDI and it works well albeit I've only written things in using WebMIDI not the ALSA sequencer. I'm really curious about your side project, would you mind sharing it?
- Wesxdz 6y ago
  For sure! I'm working on an open source gameplay framework and one of the 'upgrades' I'm planning is MIDI based manipulation of trees of gameplay values at runtime from knobs. You can read more here https://wesxdz.dev/bicycle-mango https://wesxdz.dev/bicycle-mango
  - qrv3w 6y ago
    Cool, thanks for sharing!!
Wesxdz 6y ago
I SOLVED IT~! I was trying to run one of my old games using wine and SDL debug logged that MIDI would not work because of 'Unknown SEQ default' (sorry for lack of detail, I took an image of the output instead of saving the text -_-) Installing the amd64 version of libasound2-plugins resolve the issue. Not sure why this is not the default on KDE Neon... https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+question/672680 https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+qu...