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> I don't care to debate if something was done in good or bad faith You were willing earlier, before you couldn't make your case anymore. > It is absurd to cl

by ColanR 6y ago

> I don't care to debate if something was done in good or bad faith You were willing earlier, before you couldn't make your case anymore. > It is absurd to claim that someone is acting in bad faith towards you personally Did not say that. > And if OpenBSD works for you then what's the problem? You're ignoring my point: a contrast between OpenBSD and systemd. OpenBSD is simple enough that I performed some fundamental alterations to the boot process without having to reference more than the man pages; contrast with systemd, where such alterations would be nearly impossible. > I learned these things by reading distro news, mailing lists, bug reports, and the manpages, all things that are readily available to you to. Will you listen? Do you want help... Wow. That's some impressive condescension. Sounds like you're assuming I don't read manpages, bug reports, mailing lists, etc. - I do. Why did you assume otherwise? Why did you assume that I'm unwilling to listen? > Do you have an actual issue with the code that needs solving? > are you just here to complain You asked me for specific issues - remember? I told you, and now you're calling me out for complaining. > Will you listen? Do you want help, or are you just here to complain...I get that you feel slighted by that but you do realize that it's not personal right? You seem to be attempting to make me out as having a personal grudge/slight, and thereby discredit what I have to say. > We aren't going to get anything done by debating what fits a vague definition of "good engineering" I was intentionally vague, because I was trying to create a high level categorization we could use to avoid talking past each other. As I said at the time. > And if you said that you know any programmers without a personal agenda Again, words in my mouth. > We aren't going to get anything done by debating the motivations of someone who isn't even here. > everyone has their own personal goals...There's nothing wrong with that. I expressed issue with how he is going about his agenda/goals, and with what they are; not with the fact he had them. As I said already, it is abundantly clear from what he said that he is going about his goals in bad faith.

cycloptic 6y ago
>OpenBSD is simple enough that I performed some fundamental alterations to the boot process without having to reference more than the man pages; contrast with systemd, where such alterations would be nearly impossible. Then use OpenBSD? What's the problem? You know it has a GNOME port? And you do know that it's still trivial to install your own init in Linux, and that you can use elogind on any of them to get GNOME to work? >Why did you assume otherwise? Why did you assume that I'm unwilling to listen? I assumed nothing and I'm not trying condescend you. I asked you a question. I'll ask it again in a different way: Do you want help or not? I was able to figure these things out and I didn't find it complicated at all, maybe I'm just reading different things than you are? I really don't know. But I think you're wrong in what you said earlier, this is not an nearly impossible problem. And it actually gets easier if we help each other, instead of arguing about some absent person's motivations. >it is abundantly clear from what he said that he is going about his goals in bad faith. I could make the same accusation towards you because you seem to be repeatedly trying to discredit some person who isn't even here when it's really not relevant to this discussion at all. Unless of course the goal from the beginning was to discredit someone. In that case, this discussion is over, because like I said earlier, I don't care, none of these people had any "credit" to me to begin with and it doesn't really matter to either of us where someone's "faith" lies. I'm not making that accusation though and I'm not putting words in your mouth, and I don't fault you personally for anything. I was going to try to take those mailing list statements at face value but I just don't think you will be convinced by that after reading TFA. Let it sit for a while, then maybe we can talk about something constructive like how to move forward? I don't know, it's up to you.
- ColanR 6y ago
  Sorry man, you're refusing to respond to what I have to say. You don't have the high ground here, and you're not being constructive. Any time I pin you down, you ignore my point and condescend. Have a nice day.
  - cycloptic 6y ago
    I'm not refusing to respond to you there is just no possible way for me to respond to this in a reasonable way. There is nothing either of us can say here to be constructive or gain "the high ground" as long as you make it about this. It's just trash-talking someone else behind their back. If you do have some real problem with another person you should take it up with them and not me. And if you want to have a reasonable chance of them responding in a friendly and non-hostile way, you should probably not go in with guns blazing and assuming bad faith. Assuming bad faith is a sure way to keep yourself mad and frustrated at this person, instead of getting the conflict resolved. I will assume from your declining of my offer that you never wanted help and just wanted to complain. So, you too have a nice day. My offer still stands.

by ColanR 6y ago

cycloptic 6y ago

>OpenBSD is simple enough that I performed some fundamental alterations to the boot process without having to reference more than the man pages; contrast with systemd, where such alterations would be nearly impossible. Then use OpenBSD? What's the problem? You know it has a GNOME port? And you do know that it's still trivial to install your own init in Linux, and that you can use elogind on any of them to get GNOME to work? >Why did you assume otherwise? Why did you assume that I'm unwilling to listen? I assumed nothing and I'm not trying condescend you. I asked you a question. I'll ask it again in a different way: Do you want help or not? I was able to figure these things out and I didn't find it complicated at all, maybe I'm just reading different things than you are? I really don't know. But I think you're wrong in what you said earlier, this is not an nearly impossible problem. And it actually gets easier if we help each other, instead of arguing about some absent person's motivations. >it is abundantly clear from what he said that he is going about his goals in bad faith. I could make the same accusation towards you because you seem to be repeatedly trying to discredit some person who isn't even here when it's really not relevant to this discussion at all. Unless of course the goal from the beginning was to discredit someone. In that case, this discussion is over, because like I said earlier, I don't care, none of these people had any "credit" to me to begin with and it doesn't really matter to either of us where someone's "faith" lies. I'm not making that accusation though and I'm not putting words in your mouth, and I don't fault you personally for anything. I was going to try to take those mailing list statements at face value but I just don't think you will be convinced by that after reading TFA. Let it sit for a while, then maybe we can talk about something constructive like how to move forward? I don't know, it's up to you.

ColanR 6y ago
Sorry man, you're refusing to respond to what I have to say. You don't have the high ground here, and you're not being constructive. Any time I pin you down, you ignore my point and condescend. Have a nice day.
- cycloptic 6y ago
  I'm not refusing to respond to you there is just no possible way for me to respond to this in a reasonable way. There is nothing either of us can say here to be constructive or gain "the high ground" as long as you make it about this. It's just trash-talking someone else behind their back. If you do have some real problem with another person you should take it up with them and not me. And if you want to have a reasonable chance of them responding in a friendly and non-hostile way, you should probably not go in with guns blazing and assuming bad faith. Assuming bad faith is a sure way to keep yourself mad and frustrated at this person, instead of getting the conflict resolved. I will assume from your declining of my offer that you never wanted help and just wanted to complain. So, you too have a nice day. My offer still stands.