5 ms·

I have lived near Detroit for almost 1/2 a century. Downtown is one of the pockets that are nice. Detroit has nice pockets, the stuff in between is where you do

by thomk 6y ago

I have lived near Detroit for almost 1/2 a century. Downtown is one of the pockets that are nice. Detroit has nice pockets, the stuff in between is where you don't want your car to quit on you. Detroit is a big city; like 140 square miles. The vast majority of that land are neighborhoods that are high crime. It's been that way for a long time. It is changing slowly but mostly around the afore mentioned pockets.

leesec 6y ago
To be honest you sound like someone who lives in Sterling Heights that still thinks Detroit is dangerous, when it hasn't been that way in a long time. My wife and I regularly run around one of these "scary" neighborhoods (where we live) even at night in summer and we haven't been hassled in any shape or form for years. Just my anecdata though.
- thomk 6y ago
  I have been to hundreds of events in Detroit. I know the type you are talking about, I am not them, I love Detroit. The unfortunate truth is there are 20,000 cities in the US and in 2018 Detroit ranked #3 for murder. Detroit has more murders than New York, Los Angeles and Chicago combined. You live in a dangerous city and it's not because I said so. My guess is you guys are new to the city and you live in a nice pocket. That's great for the city, thank you. I used to 'run around' the city in the 80s when it was twice as violent and I too was never harassed because I too could afford to live and play in the nice areas. I'm not talking about me and you.
  - modriano 6y ago
    Detroit absolutely doesn't have more homicides than Chicago, and I have no idea how you could have come to believe that. Detroit hasn't had more than 400 homicides in a year since 2007. Chicago hasn't had under 500 homicides per year since 2014 (over 800 in 2016), and we (I'm a homicide researcher in Chicago who grew up in Detroit, btw) haven't had fewer than 400 homicides per year since the 1960's. If you meant per-capita, Detroit does have more homicides per capita than Chicago, LA, or NYC, but combining per-capita numbers doesn't really make sense/is misleading.
    - rossvor 6y ago
      I have no opinion on Detroit or crime rates in general. Just want to disagree that combining per-capita numbers is in some way misleading. Makes perfect sense for me and that is how I read the parent's comment -- combined and per-capita. Meant to illustrate the degree of the problem compared to other cities.
      - fhars 6y ago
        Adding per capita numbers makes absolutely no sense at all. None whatsoever.
        rossvor 6y ago
        It works the same way as any other time a sentence like "A has a greater value in X than B, C and D combined" appears -- to illustrate that A is significantly larger compared to its siblings in the set and its usually meant to be a surprising fact. X can be a total, per capita or some other rate or whatever, it will depend on the context, as long as it's the same, it doesn't the affect the intent of the sentence. To expand it further. I assume you don't consider below being misleading somehow: Mary gets paid 90k per annum -- which is more than what both Jane and Jill receive per annum combined. It's the same principle.
        jstanley 6y ago
        If it's per capita, can't you just list every city that has a lower per-capita rate and claim that it is higher than all of them "combined"? > Mary gets paid 90k per annum -- which is more than what both Jane and Jill receive per annum combined. It's the same principle. This is misleading if all you're saying is that both Jane and Jill get paid less than 90k.
        hobofan 6y ago
        > This is misleading if all you're saying is that both Jane and Jill get paid less than 90k. But nobody is saying that. That is a totally normal statement to make. E.g. 90k > (20k + 30k) It works just as well for the murder rate per 100k residents: 39.80 > (23.14 + 7.01 + 3.39) Detroit > (Chicago + LA + NYC)
  - monadic2 6y ago
    I’d think the metric to look at with the signifier “anymore” would be crime in Detroit over time as there has been a massive drop over the years. I don’t read any implied comparison with other cities.
- thomk 6y ago
  Detroit has more crime than 99.2% of cities in the US: https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Detroit-Michigan.html https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Detroit-Michigan.html
jotm 6y ago
I always hear about these bad neighbourhoods and it sounds very interesting to me. So it's like, you can drive through one and get yelled at? Mugged? Carjacked? Shot? Is it true and if yes, how is this possible, I wonder what's fundamentally different than Europe (I grew up in a poor country, I've lived in plenty of poor neighbourhoods, rarely had trouble beyond aggressive drunks and a few muggings). Or is everyone's life so sheltered that a gang of kids seems like nazis on parade?
- odshoifsdhfs 6y ago
  You don't need to go to the US. In Europe (I'm in Portugal) there are bad neighbourhoods where 'normal' people don't go. Where even the paramedics only enter with a police escort and even police sometimes are scared to go there. Maybe not so many murders as guns are harder to come by (but shotguns for hunting/home defense are easier) but the chances of being mugged are high. Just an example that happened yesterday when police tried to stop a party and were greeted with stones and some gunshots: https://www.dn.pt/pais/agentes-da-psp-recebidos-a-tiro-quando-tentavam-acabar-com-festa-em-moscavide-12204080.html https://www.dn.pt/pais/agentes-da-psp-recebidos-a-tiro-quand... I lived in many places in Europe, all countries have these 'parts of town' but you just don't know much about them unless you live near one of them or know someone that works there (police, nurse, etc).
  - jotm 6y ago
    Wow, OK, I guess I haven't lived in/near the actual worst... Seems rather wild to me.
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  > I wonder what's fundamentally different than Europe Nothing. There are neighborhoods in Limerick city in Ireland where the fire brigade only go with a police escort, because people were calling to report a fire and then attacking the fire engines. If you don’t think there are neighborhoods in Europe the police only go in large groups you’re wrong. There are many fewer but the US isn’t some alien planet.

by thomk 6y ago

leesec 6y ago

To be honest you sound like someone who lives in Sterling Heights that still thinks Detroit is dangerous, when it hasn't been that way in a long time. My wife and I regularly run around one of these "scary" neighborhoods (where we live) even at night in summer and we haven't been hassled in any shape or form for years. Just my anecdata though.

thomk 6y ago
I have been to hundreds of events in Detroit. I know the type you are talking about, I am not them, I love Detroit. The unfortunate truth is there are 20,000 cities in the US and in 2018 Detroit ranked #3 for murder. Detroit has more murders than New York, Los Angeles and Chicago combined. You live in a dangerous city and it's not because I said so. My guess is you guys are new to the city and you live in a nice pocket. That's great for the city, thank you. I used to 'run around' the city in the 80s when it was twice as violent and I too was never harassed because I too could afford to live and play in the nice areas. I'm not talking about me and you.
- modriano 6y ago
  Detroit absolutely doesn't have more homicides than Chicago, and I have no idea how you could have come to believe that. Detroit hasn't had more than 400 homicides in a year since 2007. Chicago hasn't had under 500 homicides per year since 2014 (over 800 in 2016), and we (I'm a homicide researcher in Chicago who grew up in Detroit, btw) haven't had fewer than 400 homicides per year since the 1960's. If you meant per-capita, Detroit does have more homicides per capita than Chicago, LA, or NYC, but combining per-capita numbers doesn't really make sense/is misleading.
  - rossvor 6y ago
    I have no opinion on Detroit or crime rates in general. Just want to disagree that combining per-capita numbers is in some way misleading. Makes perfect sense for me and that is how I read the parent's comment -- combined and per-capita. Meant to illustrate the degree of the problem compared to other cities.
    - fhars 6y ago
      Adding per capita numbers makes absolutely no sense at all. None whatsoever.
      - rossvor 6y ago
        It works the same way as any other time a sentence like "A has a greater value in X than B, C and D combined" appears -- to illustrate that A is significantly larger compared to its siblings in the set and its usually meant to be a surprising fact. X can be a total, per capita or some other rate or whatever, it will depend on the context, as long as it's the same, it doesn't the affect the intent of the sentence. To expand it further. I assume you don't consider below being misleading somehow: Mary gets paid 90k per annum -- which is more than what both Jane and Jill receive per annum combined. It's the same principle.
        jstanley 6y ago
        If it's per capita, can't you just list every city that has a lower per-capita rate and claim that it is higher than all of them "combined"? > Mary gets paid 90k per annum -- which is more than what both Jane and Jill receive per annum combined. It's the same principle. This is misleading if all you're saying is that both Jane and Jill get paid less than 90k.
        hobofan 6y ago
        > This is misleading if all you're saying is that both Jane and Jill get paid less than 90k. But nobody is saying that. That is a totally normal statement to make. E.g. 90k > (20k + 30k) It works just as well for the murder rate per 100k residents: 39.80 > (23.14 + 7.01 + 3.39) Detroit > (Chicago + LA + NYC)
- monadic2 6y ago
  I’d think the metric to look at with the signifier “anymore” would be crime in Detroit over time as there has been a massive drop over the years. I don’t read any implied comparison with other cities.
thomk 6y ago
Detroit has more crime than 99.2% of cities in the US: https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Detroit-Michigan.html https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Detroit-Michigan.html

jotm 6y ago

I always hear about these bad neighbourhoods and it sounds very interesting to me. So it's like, you can drive through one and get yelled at? Mugged? Carjacked? Shot? Is it true and if yes, how is this possible, I wonder what's fundamentally different than Europe (I grew up in a poor country, I've lived in plenty of poor neighbourhoods, rarely had trouble beyond aggressive drunks and a few muggings). Or is everyone's life so sheltered that a gang of kids seems like nazis on parade?

odshoifsdhfs 6y ago
You don't need to go to the US. In Europe (I'm in Portugal) there are bad neighbourhoods where 'normal' people don't go. Where even the paramedics only enter with a police escort and even police sometimes are scared to go there. Maybe not so many murders as guns are harder to come by (but shotguns for hunting/home defense are easier) but the chances of being mugged are high. Just an example that happened yesterday when police tried to stop a party and were greeted with stones and some gunshots: https://www.dn.pt/pais/agentes-da-psp-recebidos-a-tiro-quando-tentavam-acabar-com-festa-em-moscavide-12204080.html https://www.dn.pt/pais/agentes-da-psp-recebidos-a-tiro-quand... I lived in many places in Europe, all countries have these 'parts of town' but you just don't know much about them unless you live near one of them or know someone that works there (police, nurse, etc).
- jotm 6y ago
  Wow, OK, I guess I haven't lived in/near the actual worst... Seems rather wild to me.
barry-cotter 6y ago
> I wonder what's fundamentally different than Europe Nothing. There are neighborhoods in Limerick city in Ireland where the fire brigade only go with a police escort, because people were calling to report a fire and then attacking the fire engines. If you don’t think there are neighborhoods in Europe the police only go in large groups you’re wrong. There are many fewer but the US isn’t some alien planet.