8 ms·

> It happens today! It happens today sure, but it's a phantom of what it once was. This was American culture when my grandparents grew up. Like you were cons

by phil21 6y ago

> It happens today! It happens today sure, but it's a phantom of what it once was. This was American culture when my grandparents grew up. Like you were considered the weirdo for not participating. Now it's an exceedingly rare thing to find a well-knit community such as the OP describe. I've seen what amounts of a caricature of what used to be in some neighborhoods where my friends are the "ultra type A" types - but it takes someone like that to both start, and keep it going. As soon as they move away or otherwise have a life event, the community crumbles within months. The community spirit of the US is effectively dead except for small little pockets that you must actively seek out to participate in. This was not the case even 40 years ago. Just once small anecdote: My Grandfather loved fishing, lived on a lake, had fishing buddies they'd go out with here and there over the weekends. A few fishing trips scheduled a year where a dozen dudes would rent a cabin for a week and have a good time. Every single one of these guys was a pallbearer, or at least at his funeral. They were also at all his major life events, and when one of the group was in some sort of financial or other trouble the entire group was there helping without even being asked to. How many quake clan players and HN buddies are going to have that sort of social cohesion and mutual support for each other? How many will drive 6 hours to help you fix the shed that burned out in your back yard? How many will spend 2 weeks visiting you on your death bed? I'd posit a tiny fraction if any at all. I have though about this since I was a teenager playing Doom II with my clan buddies. Yeah, this is all super fun right now but it's all so fleeting, trite, and really ultimately pointless. Very few of those relationships actually matter. I think I got exactly one IRL long-term friend out of meeting hundreds of "internet friends" since then, and these are guys I'd send money to to pay bills and such in a pinch - not just randos. This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. All I know is that when myself and the closest dozen folks like me I know finally die, there will be no packed church full of people who spent a full life together. It's quite depressing not for that said fact, but because it shows how little "in this shit together" US society is, and what that means for the long term.

shard972 6y ago
> This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. Boomers really are the greatest generation ever
aklemm 6y ago
The problem is work culture, not Internet culture. We’re all quick to leave our communities for greener pastures. Many young people don’t even give it a second thought. Learn to love the region you’re in, and let work amd pop culture take a backseat to family, friends, place, etc.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
acituan 6y ago
> This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. This resentment is legitimate. I believe it is more than just the generation that destroyed the fabric. And it not happening only in the US. But it doesn't mean we don't have our agency about it. Yes, a whole lot of things keep changing in our environment very fast. That's our making because we participate in it. But in that there is a space for us to do the right thing, lead with example, gather those friends that we've lost to mindless internet scrolling for mindful and deep chat, to change our environment that makes cultivating such relationships possible. Let some defect, let some betray, but make a stance with what value you choose to act on. The fact you are sad about this loss, gives me and I'm sure many others hope that we will eventually figure our way through this. Maybe not soon, maybe not even in our lifetime, but as long as we don't numb our pain or replace the need for genuine connection with addiction, we will find ourselves making steps in the right direction.
- xg15 6y ago
  > Maybe not soon, maybe not even in our lifetime, but as long as we don't numb our pain or replace the need for genuine connection with addiction, we will find ourselves making steps in the right direction. Meanwhile the best minds of my generation are figuring out new ways to numb the pain and to replace the need for genuine connection with addiction.
bsder 6y ago
> This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. If you want to fix this, you have to fix employment. Your grandfather's generation worked a single job for 30+ years and never moved. That's unheard of in this generation. You have to break the cycle of forcing people to move in order to have decent employment.
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  If you move to a location with good employment (a "megacity" or "megaregion") and raise your family there, nobody will have to move, barring any black swan events (e.g., Katrina likely permanently impacted New Orleans to some degree that remains today). A lot of families were started in areas that were artificially good for their time. Many small-to-medium size towns across the U.S. that once were economically prosperous, but no more. And times were too good to notice. With rose colored glasses, all red flags just look like flags.
  - bsder 6y ago
    > Many small-to-medium size towns across the U.S. that once were economically prosperous, but no more. And times were too good to notice. Why is the previous organization of society and industry "artificial" instead of what we have now? I would argue that the current "ship things around the world to save a fraction of a penny" instead of "manufacture locally" is the "artificial" situation. Our complete inability to adjust manufacturing in a time of great need due to Covid suggests that perhaps our modern organization is actually the wrong organization of industry and society.
- balfirevic 6y ago
  > Your grandfather's generation worked a single job for 30+ years and never moved. Thanks, but no thanks.
  - bsder 6y ago
    That's cool, too. The problem today is that if someone actually wants to have a job like that, it doesn't exist.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
>This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. I don't think it's the fault of the video game generation. There is higher volatility in general, which causes people to move around and focus on securing income more than recreation. The post WW2 to 2000 period of the US might have been an atypically stable period lifting everyone up at the same time.
- swiley 6y ago
  A lot of them couldn’t visit their friends without involving an adult because everything is so far away. Plus you get the “stranger danger” hammered into you so hard you learn that staying in and playing video games is what everyone wants out of you. A lot of the poor behavior of this generation is due to the fact that they weren’t given much of an alternative.
JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
There isn't anything wrong with using Hacker News. The loneliness epidemic is real. Technology was intended to supplement our in-person interactions; not subsume it. I empathize with the anecdote. The person who moves away that keeps everyone together; that's real. Not everyone has the social presence to pull that off. Communities come and go with those linchpin organizers. Some people can try to be the linchpin, but if the replacement person doesn't have that "it" factor, the community does indeed crumble.
taneq 6y ago
> How many quake clan players and HN buddies are going to have that sort of social cohesion and mutual support for each other? How many will drive 6 hours to help you fix the shed that burned out in your back yard? How many will spend 2 weeks visiting you on your death bed? I'd posit a tiny fraction if any at all. Large parts of our social group were initially met through gaming and we've had examples of all of those things (well, nobody's shed burned down, but...) I think the issue you're seeing is with the people you gamed with, not the way you met them.

by phil21 6y ago

shard972 6y ago

> This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. Boomers really are the greatest generation ever

aklemm 6y ago

The problem is work culture, not Internet culture. We’re all quick to leave our communities for greener pastures. Many young people don’t even give it a second thought. Learn to love the region you’re in, and let work amd pop culture take a backseat to family, friends, place, etc.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

acituan 6y ago

> This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. This resentment is legitimate. I believe it is more than just the generation that destroyed the fabric. And it not happening only in the US. But it doesn't mean we don't have our agency about it. Yes, a whole lot of things keep changing in our environment very fast. That's our making because we participate in it. But in that there is a space for us to do the right thing, lead with example, gather those friends that we've lost to mindless internet scrolling for mindful and deep chat, to change our environment that makes cultivating such relationships possible. Let some defect, let some betray, but make a stance with what value you choose to act on. The fact you are sad about this loss, gives me and I'm sure many others hope that we will eventually figure our way through this. Maybe not soon, maybe not even in our lifetime, but as long as we don't numb our pain or replace the need for genuine connection with addiction, we will find ourselves making steps in the right direction.

xg15 6y ago
> Maybe not soon, maybe not even in our lifetime, but as long as we don't numb our pain or replace the need for genuine connection with addiction, we will find ourselves making steps in the right direction. Meanwhile the best minds of my generation are figuring out new ways to numb the pain and to replace the need for genuine connection with addiction.

bsder 6y ago

> This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. If you want to fix this, you have to fix employment. Your grandfather's generation worked a single job for 30+ years and never moved. That's unheard of in this generation. You have to break the cycle of forcing people to move in order to have decent employment.

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
If you move to a location with good employment (a "megacity" or "megaregion") and raise your family there, nobody will have to move, barring any black swan events (e.g., Katrina likely permanently impacted New Orleans to some degree that remains today). A lot of families were started in areas that were artificially good for their time. Many small-to-medium size towns across the U.S. that once were economically prosperous, but no more. And times were too good to notice. With rose colored glasses, all red flags just look like flags.
- bsder 6y ago
  > Many small-to-medium size towns across the U.S. that once were economically prosperous, but no more. And times were too good to notice. Why is the previous organization of society and industry "artificial" instead of what we have now? I would argue that the current "ship things around the world to save a fraction of a penny" instead of "manufacture locally" is the "artificial" situation. Our complete inability to adjust manufacturing in a time of great need due to Covid suggests that perhaps our modern organization is actually the wrong organization of industry and society.
balfirevic 6y ago
> Your grandfather's generation worked a single job for 30+ years and never moved. Thanks, but no thanks.
- bsder 6y ago
  That's cool, too. The problem today is that if someone actually wants to have a job like that, it doesn't exist.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

>This single generation has utterly destroyed the social fabric of America and I have my doubts it can come back. I don't think it's the fault of the video game generation. There is higher volatility in general, which causes people to move around and focus on securing income more than recreation. The post WW2 to 2000 period of the US might have been an atypically stable period lifting everyone up at the same time.

swiley 6y ago
A lot of them couldn’t visit their friends without involving an adult because everything is so far away. Plus you get the “stranger danger” hammered into you so hard you learn that staying in and playing video games is what everyone wants out of you. A lot of the poor behavior of this generation is due to the fact that they weren’t given much of an alternative.

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago

There isn't anything wrong with using Hacker News. The loneliness epidemic is real. Technology was intended to supplement our in-person interactions; not subsume it. I empathize with the anecdote. The person who moves away that keeps everyone together; that's real. Not everyone has the social presence to pull that off. Communities come and go with those linchpin organizers. Some people can try to be the linchpin, but if the replacement person doesn't have that "it" factor, the community does indeed crumble.

taneq 6y ago

> How many quake clan players and HN buddies are going to have that sort of social cohesion and mutual support for each other? How many will drive 6 hours to help you fix the shed that burned out in your back yard? How many will spend 2 weeks visiting you on your death bed? I'd posit a tiny fraction if any at all. Large parts of our social group were initially met through gaming and we've had examples of all of those things (well, nobody's shed burned down, but...) I think the issue you're seeing is with the people you gamed with, not the way you met them.