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The issue with Reddit is that there's little to no user engagement with older content. Comments on posts older than a day in pretty much every reasonably active

by zhdc1 6y ago

The issue with Reddit is that there's little to no user engagement with older content. Comments on posts older than a day in pretty much every reasonably active subreddit are ignored. This is also an issue on HN. This kills informed discussion - some topics need more than one or two minutes of thought for a thoughtful and articulated response. This simply isn't possible when you know that the person you're replying to likely won't respond if you take more than a couple of hours to reply, that the conversation thread will be hidden behind a 'read more' button after one or two responses, and that the post itself will be buried shortly thereafter. The average post quality on most forums was awful, as much or more so than what you see now on Reddit or HN. The difference is that it was possible for informed posts to persist as the center of discussion for years, if needed. As an example, I don't see how a group of people can become interested and collaboratively participate in something like designing an amplifier circuit on Reddit without moving to a third party site, and in doing so cutting off contact and visibility with potential collaborators who happen to find the discussion a couple of hours too late. That's the level of connectivity and cooperation that was possible through forums and bulletin boards for a bunch of different niche topics, and it's basically been lost now that the 2chan/Digg style format (Reddit) has taken over.

slightwinder 6y ago
With modern forums the flow of discussion is different. If you have something for a dated discussion, you just open a new thread. Here on HN you often see those indirect responses happening. Reddit on the other side used to have a better response-interface. You get a message for new responses and can discuss things over weeks and months if it just happen so. New redfit-interface killed yhis a bit.
ativzzz 6y ago
> The issue with Reddit is that there's little to no user engagement with older content. Comments on posts older than a day in pretty much every reasonably active subreddit are ignored. This is also an issue on HN. This is even worse with communities using live chat platforms like Discord and IRC. Live chat is an atrocious medium for community building as you constantly have to be involved to keep up or if you just check it for 5 mins you don't actually get anything if there is no conversation at the moment or the conversation isn't interesting.
dredmorbius 6y ago
So much this. For a discussion site, Reddit's a really shitty discussion site. Good conversations rarely even begin, and die rapidly. I've discussed this a few times and places. On HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16865105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16865105 It was a problem I'd identified when first trialing a Reddit-as-blog dynamic: The Reddit Notifications dynamic is proving to be a very strong negative. Something Google+ got right is to keep re-engaging people with active, productive, posts. Days, weeks, months, even years later. This isn't something you want in _all cases (and can opt out of), but it is often useful, and means that conversations can develop. Reddit, sadly (after some five years or so of trying) is proving to be a Flying Purple Conversation Eater. This is a major site frustration. https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/wiki/faq#wiki_so.2C_reddit.27s_got_everything_you_couldn.27t_find_at_the_other_place.3F https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/wiki/faq#wiki_so.2C_red... That's from 5-6 years ago. True conversation is fragile, rare, and scales poorly. And, as noted in both links, Google+ managed this surprisingly well.
- freehunter 6y ago
  This is super awful when you’re trying to have a potentially controversial discussion with someone. Even if both of you are interested in the discussion it gets to a point where why bother continuing because no one is going to see it when they have to click “load more comments” and follow the thread for hours or days. Forums like Reddit and HN actively encourage short pithy sound bites that sound interesting but are actually shallow so they’re easy to write and easy to consume and also uncontroversial so your comment(and the following discussion) isn’t hidden after one or two downvotes.
  - fragmede 6y ago
    Reddit, at least, has an active reply notification system, so while this is rare, at least it's possible to have a conversation, even if it's probably only visible to its participants. HN's lack of an active reply notification means that, unless you're checking the [threads] link obsessively, replies can easily go unnoticed, so writing here is more performative. How that intersects with the rest of the site's dynamics, I'm not sure.
ravenstine 6y ago
You're definitely right, although a day of reply-time is pretty good by internet standards. Back when I used Facebook, I noticed that the only way for a comment to get noticed was if it was added in the first 10 - 20 minutes of a post's lifetime. Once an hour has elapsed, anything you write will probably be never seen by anyone. This is the big problem with online communication; it's reduced everything to small tidbits that nobody has time to have nuanced discussions about. You've got to be quick and to the point, or you're out.
asdff 6y ago
Forums were crap for that, too. If you commented on an ancient thread, a moderator might flame you at best, ban you at worst, for necroposting. Most forums were ran like North Korea and people just dealt with it, heatedly defended the absolute authoritarianism even.
- flyingfences 6y ago
  That was an issue with certain moderators, though, not an issue inherent to the platform. A good forum allowed for good discussion.
JadeNB 6y ago
> This is also an issue on HN. HN intentionally makes it worse by forcing you to choose between only starting new conversations (or participating in currently-live existing conversations), or obsessively checking all your posts for replies.

by zhdc1 6y ago

slightwinder 6y ago

With modern forums the flow of discussion is different. If you have something for a dated discussion, you just open a new thread. Here on HN you often see those indirect responses happening. Reddit on the other side used to have a better response-interface. You get a message for new responses and can discuss things over weeks and months if it just happen so. New redfit-interface killed yhis a bit.

ativzzz 6y ago

> The issue with Reddit is that there's little to no user engagement with older content. Comments on posts older than a day in pretty much every reasonably active subreddit are ignored. This is also an issue on HN. This is even worse with communities using live chat platforms like Discord and IRC. Live chat is an atrocious medium for community building as you constantly have to be involved to keep up or if you just check it for 5 mins you don't actually get anything if there is no conversation at the moment or the conversation isn't interesting.

dredmorbius 6y ago

So much this. For a discussion site, Reddit's a really shitty discussion site. Good conversations rarely even begin, and die rapidly. I've discussed this a few times and places. On HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16865105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16865105 It was a problem I'd identified when first trialing a Reddit-as-blog dynamic: The Reddit Notifications dynamic is proving to be a very strong negative. Something Google+ got right is to keep re-engaging people with active, productive, posts. Days, weeks, months, even years later. This isn't something you want in _all cases (and can opt out of), but it is often useful, and means that conversations can develop. Reddit, sadly (after some five years or so of trying) is proving to be a Flying Purple Conversation Eater. This is a major site frustration. https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/wiki/faq#wiki_so.2C_reddit.27s_got_everything_you_couldn.27t_find_at_the_other_place.3F https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/wiki/faq#wiki_so.2C_red... That's from 5-6 years ago. True conversation is fragile, rare, and scales poorly. And, as noted in both links, Google+ managed this surprisingly well.

freehunter 6y ago
This is super awful when you’re trying to have a potentially controversial discussion with someone. Even if both of you are interested in the discussion it gets to a point where why bother continuing because no one is going to see it when they have to click “load more comments” and follow the thread for hours or days. Forums like Reddit and HN actively encourage short pithy sound bites that sound interesting but are actually shallow so they’re easy to write and easy to consume and also uncontroversial so your comment(and the following discussion) isn’t hidden after one or two downvotes.
- fragmede 6y ago
  Reddit, at least, has an active reply notification system, so while this is rare, at least it's possible to have a conversation, even if it's probably only visible to its participants. HN's lack of an active reply notification means that, unless you're checking the [threads] link obsessively, replies can easily go unnoticed, so writing here is more performative. How that intersects with the rest of the site's dynamics, I'm not sure.

ravenstine 6y ago

You're definitely right, although a day of reply-time is pretty good by internet standards. Back when I used Facebook, I noticed that the only way for a comment to get noticed was if it was added in the first 10 - 20 minutes of a post's lifetime. Once an hour has elapsed, anything you write will probably be never seen by anyone. This is the big problem with online communication; it's reduced everything to small tidbits that nobody has time to have nuanced discussions about. You've got to be quick and to the point, or you're out.

asdff 6y ago

Forums were crap for that, too. If you commented on an ancient thread, a moderator might flame you at best, ban you at worst, for necroposting. Most forums were ran like North Korea and people just dealt with it, heatedly defended the absolute authoritarianism even.

flyingfences 6y ago
That was an issue with certain moderators, though, not an issue inherent to the platform. A good forum allowed for good discussion.

JadeNB 6y ago

> This is also an issue on HN. HN intentionally makes it worse by forcing you to choose between only starting new conversations (or participating in currently-live existing conversations), or obsessively checking all your posts for replies.