3 ms·

I don't get it. From what I can gather they are not testing a new medicine or vaccine, this is purely testing. So there is no harm to patients at all. All they

I don't get it. From what I can gather they are not testing a new medicine or vaccine, this is purely testing. So there is no harm to patients at all. All they are trying to do is understand the pandemic and the virus. Why stop it? Correct me if I am missing something really obvious here, but I cannot help but think it could be politically motivated given that its bringing out dozens of previously undetected infected patients. I really hope its not the case but cannot stop thinking about it.

TylerE 6y ago
Because Trump has come out and said too much testing is bad, because it might spook the almighty stock market. https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-keep-stock-market-up-economy-2020-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-coronavirus-res...
greglindahl 6y ago
There is harm to a patient if you tell them an incorrect test result.
- boulos 6y ago
  I think it’s more nuanced than that (see my other comment). If you have a false negative, then maybe they spread the disease more than they might have otherwise (unwittingly, but now with the “certainty” they don’t have it). If you have a false positive, the main downside is from people who think “great, I’ve had it / got it, I’ll be immune shortly”. So that’s the main risk to them.
  - loeg 6y ago
    In addition to the points raised above, a false positive could also have negative impacts on income (unpaid sick leave to self-quarantine). The false negative hypothesis is facile; even if you don't have it, you can still get it. Ignoring social distancing on that basis wouldn't be any more sensible than doing so without the test. To the extent that some people are just idiots, a false negative diagnosis does not change that.
- hirundo 6y ago
  There is also harm to telling them other incorrect facts, but we generally consider a ministry of truth to be a bad idea. Yet we tolerate the ministry of food and drug truth. This story underlines the cost of that.
  - greglindahl 6y ago
    I expect the ministry of food science and the ministry of drug science to be scientific. That's quite different from what you're talking about. I have noticed that your comment is quite typical for people who want to say that we live in a post-truth world. There are certainly problems, but one solution is to double down on science.
- loeg 6y ago
  There's also harm if you don't tell them a correct result. There's especially harm if you stop testing their neighbors to monitor community spread during a fucking global pandemic over this pointless red tape about providing results.
  - greglindahl 6y ago
    Thank you for elevating the discourse with phrases like "fucking global pandemic over this pointless red tape". A global pandemic is exactly when we should be thinking hard instead of trading insults.
    - loeg 6y ago
      > Thank you for elevating the discourse ... > we should [not] be ... trading insults. A backhanded compliment is a form of insult, friend. I don't think this kind of ad hominem attack is substantially responsive to my remarks.
      - greglindahl 6y ago
        Pointing out that someone is using silly language with pointless effect is not an "ad hominem attack": can you point out anyone who might be confused by what I said? Your use of "my friend" is similar to the thing you're complaining about. I got what you mean. Bringing up "ad hominem" is dodging the real issue. Another comment of yours: "utterly stupid bureaucracy"
atarian 6y ago
It probably has to do with the optics of being associated with Bill Gates: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/technology/bill-gates-virus-conspiracy-theories.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/technology/bill-gates-vir...
boomboomsubban 6y ago
>So there is no harm to patients at all Yes there is. If the test fails, and they report to the patient that they do/don't have the virus, that can cause significant harm to the patient and others. We don't know how accurate these tests are, which is why a surveillance test is needed. (Or different standards would allow a diagnostic test, I'm not sure)

TylerE 6y ago

Because Trump has come out and said too much testing is bad, because it might spook the almighty stock market. https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-keep-stock-market-up-economy-2020-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-coronavirus-res...

greglindahl 6y ago

There is harm to a patient if you tell them an incorrect test result.

boulos 6y ago
I think it’s more nuanced than that (see my other comment). If you have a false negative, then maybe they spread the disease more than they might have otherwise (unwittingly, but now with the “certainty” they don’t have it). If you have a false positive, the main downside is from people who think “great, I’ve had it / got it, I’ll be immune shortly”. So that’s the main risk to them.
- loeg 6y ago
  In addition to the points raised above, a false positive could also have negative impacts on income (unpaid sick leave to self-quarantine). The false negative hypothesis is facile; even if you don't have it, you can still get it. Ignoring social distancing on that basis wouldn't be any more sensible than doing so without the test. To the extent that some people are just idiots, a false negative diagnosis does not change that.
hirundo 6y ago
There is also harm to telling them other incorrect facts, but we generally consider a ministry of truth to be a bad idea. Yet we tolerate the ministry of food and drug truth. This story underlines the cost of that.
- greglindahl 6y ago
  I expect the ministry of food science and the ministry of drug science to be scientific. That's quite different from what you're talking about. I have noticed that your comment is quite typical for people who want to say that we live in a post-truth world. There are certainly problems, but one solution is to double down on science.
loeg 6y ago
There's also harm if you don't tell them a correct result. There's especially harm if you stop testing their neighbors to monitor community spread during a fucking global pandemic over this pointless red tape about providing results.
- greglindahl 6y ago
  Thank you for elevating the discourse with phrases like "fucking global pandemic over this pointless red tape". A global pandemic is exactly when we should be thinking hard instead of trading insults.
  - loeg 6y ago
    > Thank you for elevating the discourse ... > we should [not] be ... trading insults. A backhanded compliment is a form of insult, friend. I don't think this kind of ad hominem attack is substantially responsive to my remarks.
    - greglindahl 6y ago
      Pointing out that someone is using silly language with pointless effect is not an "ad hominem attack": can you point out anyone who might be confused by what I said? Your use of "my friend" is similar to the thing you're complaining about. I got what you mean. Bringing up "ad hominem" is dodging the real issue. Another comment of yours: "utterly stupid bureaucracy"

atarian 6y ago

It probably has to do with the optics of being associated with Bill Gates: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/technology/bill-gates-virus-conspiracy-theories.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/technology/bill-gates-vir...

boomboomsubban 6y ago

>So there is no harm to patients at all Yes there is. If the test fails, and they report to the patient that they do/don't have the virus, that can cause significant harm to the patient and others. We don't know how accurate these tests are, which is why a surveillance test is needed. (Or different standards would allow a diagnostic test, I'm not sure)