4 ms·

Always amuses me how the apocalypse of Inidgenous Americans never seems to make the cut...

by asaegyn 6y ago

netcan 6y ago
amuses?
- nkozyra 6y ago
  I doubt the op meant in a pleasurable sense. What's the saying? History is written by the victors? I don't think there will ever be a reconciliation in history for the elimination of native peoples across two continents.
  - JackFr 6y ago
    In a thousand years it will just be described as ‘a migration’.
- asaegyn 6y ago
  Obviously not in a pleasurable way. It's disheartening / devastating / infuriating that the genocide of 120-40M people barely pierces the consciousness of the dominant culture when talking about apocalypses or genocides...
buzzkillington 6y ago
Winners don't talk about the people they murdered to win. Same thing about Australia, Canada and less so New Zealand. It is also hilarious that the USSR is the only country apart from Japan to successfully industrialize and avoid a colonial genocide from a Western power. If you could pick a place to live being a Russian in Moscow 1919 would give you a much better chance of surviving compared to being an Indian in Manhattan in 1624, Toronto in 1787 or Melbourne in 1835.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  Russia was a Western power as far as Central Asia and the Caucasus were concerned
  - buzzkillington 6y ago
    If having an empire is the definition of being Western than you need to include the Ottomans too. At which point the word means nothing.
- lonelappde 6y ago
  Russians were genocided by their own government, not a foreign power (except for the many used as meatbags in WWII).
- mobilefriendly 6y ago
  Please study the actual history of the USSR-- there were multiple genocides of different religions and ethnic groups. Most notable were the pogroms and the death of millions in the Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691152387/stalins-genocides https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691152387/st...
  - buzzkillington 6y ago
    Interesting how all the groups who had genocide perpetrated against them somehow ended up with a double population than when they were conquered with, meanwhile Ireland still has a smaller population than they had in 1800.
- Hoasi 6y ago
  > the USSR is the only country apart from Japan to successfully industrialize and avoid a colonial genocide from a Western power. Thailand was never a colony either. Besides, USSR was not a country and formed after the colonial heydays.
dntbnmpls 6y ago
It's sad but true. People even deny native genocide. I had a comment yesterday saying the natives didn't experience genocide but were simply "moved off their land". But I guess I can understand it somewhat. It took me a long time to come to terms with it as well. The genocide of the natives didn't sink in until I saw a list of the native languages that were wiped out along with the natives. It was dozens and dozens of languages. Many times more languages than exists in the whole of europe.
- netcan 6y ago
  Europe had many more dialects and languages than now... Some of extinction stories are genocidal as well. We have to assume a lot about what happened as Rome colonised southern europe, for example, but much of it probably rhymes what happened in the americas.
  - throwlaplace 6y ago
    this is like people comparing the indigenous african slave trade to the triangle trade - completely facile. >Rome colonised southern europe colonization in the ancient world wasn't rapacious like it was in the new world. conquered peoples maintained much of their way of life and simply became vassal. in the roman case (towards the end) they even got roman citizenship. Edit:I finally figured out hn downvotes - paper over a genocide nbd - use the word facile downvotes
    - Spooky23 6y ago
      Tell that to the Gauls!
      - throwlaplace 6y ago
        >In the five centuries between Caesar's conquest and the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, the Gaulish language and cultural identity underwent a syncretism with the Roman culture of the new governing class, and evolved into a hybrid Gallo-Roman culture that eventually permeated all levels of society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Gaul https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Gaul Can you point to symbiosis with native American culture that resembles that to any extent today in the US? All we have are racist football team mascots

Always amuses me how the apocalypse of Inidgenous Americans never seems to make the cut...

netcan 6y ago

amuses?

nkozyra 6y ago
I doubt the op meant in a pleasurable sense. What's the saying? History is written by the victors? I don't think there will ever be a reconciliation in history for the elimination of native peoples across two continents.
- JackFr 6y ago
  In a thousand years it will just be described as ‘a migration’.
asaegyn 6y ago
Obviously not in a pleasurable way. It's disheartening / devastating / infuriating that the genocide of 120-40M people barely pierces the consciousness of the dominant culture when talking about apocalypses or genocides...

buzzkillington 6y ago

Winners don't talk about the people they murdered to win. Same thing about Australia, Canada and less so New Zealand. It is also hilarious that the USSR is the only country apart from Japan to successfully industrialize and avoid a colonial genocide from a Western power. If you could pick a place to live being a Russian in Moscow 1919 would give you a much better chance of surviving compared to being an Indian in Manhattan in 1624, Toronto in 1787 or Melbourne in 1835.

selimthegrim 6y ago
Russia was a Western power as far as Central Asia and the Caucasus were concerned
- buzzkillington 6y ago
  If having an empire is the definition of being Western than you need to include the Ottomans too. At which point the word means nothing.
lonelappde 6y ago
Russians were genocided by their own government, not a foreign power (except for the many used as meatbags in WWII).
mobilefriendly 6y ago
Please study the actual history of the USSR-- there were multiple genocides of different religions and ethnic groups. Most notable were the pogroms and the death of millions in the Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691152387/stalins-genocides https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691152387/st...
- buzzkillington 6y ago
  Interesting how all the groups who had genocide perpetrated against them somehow ended up with a double population than when they were conquered with, meanwhile Ireland still has a smaller population than they had in 1800.
Hoasi 6y ago
> the USSR is the only country apart from Japan to successfully industrialize and avoid a colonial genocide from a Western power. Thailand was never a colony either. Besides, USSR was not a country and formed after the colonial heydays.

dntbnmpls 6y ago

It's sad but true. People even deny native genocide. I had a comment yesterday saying the natives didn't experience genocide but were simply "moved off their land". But I guess I can understand it somewhat. It took me a long time to come to terms with it as well. The genocide of the natives didn't sink in until I saw a list of the native languages that were wiped out along with the natives. It was dozens and dozens of languages. Many times more languages than exists in the whole of europe.

netcan 6y ago
Europe had many more dialects and languages than now... Some of extinction stories are genocidal as well. We have to assume a lot about what happened as Rome colonised southern europe, for example, but much of it probably rhymes what happened in the americas.
- throwlaplace 6y ago
  this is like people comparing the indigenous african slave trade to the triangle trade - completely facile. >Rome colonised southern europe colonization in the ancient world wasn't rapacious like it was in the new world. conquered peoples maintained much of their way of life and simply became vassal. in the roman case (towards the end) they even got roman citizenship. Edit:I finally figured out hn downvotes - paper over a genocide nbd - use the word facile downvotes
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    Tell that to the Gauls!
    - throwlaplace 6y ago
      >In the five centuries between Caesar's conquest and the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, the Gaulish language and cultural identity underwent a syncretism with the Roman culture of the new governing class, and evolved into a hybrid Gallo-Roman culture that eventually permeated all levels of society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Gaul https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Gaul Can you point to symbiosis with native American culture that resembles that to any extent today in the US? All we have are racist football team mascots