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While I do agree with various points in the article, it is kind of funny that the author works in the financial sector and has, apparently, no experience in wor

While I do agree with various points in the article, it is kind of funny that the author works in the financial sector and has, apparently, no experience in working on big games devloped in long stretches by hundreds of people at the same time: for example, this article about "C++ and gamedev" shows examples from his own Quake VR codebase, an insanely cool but clearly one-man project started and brought forward by he himself alone...

humanrebar 6y ago
Does the author have no experience developing C++ on large teams or are you asserting that large team game dev is unique compared to other industries?
- winterismute 6y ago
  > or are you asserting that large team game dev is unique compared to other industries? Well, that would be a good question to ask to the author, since he titled the article "modern C++ gamedev" and not simply "modern C++" although to me what is discussed seems to be general enough, and "gamedev" here happens to be just the type of project the code comes from... To me, it does not look like he makes any significant contribution on how "modern C++ could serve specifically games development". IMHO he has detected that people in games react strongly to content about C++ and he benefits from the additional exposure he gets by putting "gamedev" in his C++ articles/tweets/anything (which is something I am not judging btw). Personally, I do think that when your code is simulating a whole parallel universe using a not-super-high-level language, you might end up with challenges regarding readability and flexibility of the raw code that other softwares might not encounter. Not being really part of that industry I feel I can't know for sure, and therefore I have applied the same reasoning to him since he is also not part of that industry, it seems.
  - humanrebar 6y ago
    I have experience with large scale high performance C++, albeit not in games specifically. The recommendations in my experience are very sane, conservative even. I think at this point the onus is on critics to substantially respond to the points given. I don't think questioning credentials is particularly elucidating here. I don't see any reason the entire thesis of the article is flawed. As to the throwaway reference to gamedev, the article is in response to shade thrown by gamedevs, attempting to concede specific concerns and propose solutions.
    - eska 6y ago
      That's the thing though. Gamedevs aren't throwing shade, it's a strawman. Look at the twitter threas mentioned in the introduction and you'll see a bunch of civil gamedev industry veterans offering constructive criticism, only to be shut down with "that's misguided" and no counter argument. It gets old fast and it's been like this for dozens of years. I'm not surprised that they stop caring.
      - humanrebar 6y ago
        If you are making the point that Twitter arguments are counterproductive, I agree. I will concede all objections about tone because my life is too short to get dragged into Twitter tone policing. I do find the recommendations interesting and would like to keep the conversation about them. I would especially like to avoid gatekeeping and No True Scotsman arguments in a thread about code.
        eska 6y ago
        No, I did not make the point that Twitter arguments are counterproductive at all o the contrary this one looks very productive EXCEPT for the author. So now you're straw manning me as well, then say I'm gatekeeping and no true-scotsmanning. I don't appreciate that all and am therefore out.
        humanrebar 6y ago
        - winterismute questioned qualifications to have a position on writing C++ for game dev. That is gatekeeping and No True Scotsman. - At least someone on Twitter called some tweets "retarded", etc., so OP thought to continue the conversation by ignoring nonsense and restating concerns in a healthier tone. This post is his attempt to be productive, apparently. - Any perceived slight against you, you have inferred. No offense intended. - Perhaps HN discussions are only marginally better than Twitter if people can't avoid making discussions about fold operators personally.
        6y ago
dkersten 6y ago
So? Doesn't mean people have to be toxic about a code snippet he posted because he found it interesting. Personally, I'm glad he posted about fold expressions, because I'm not up to date on C++17 yet and I found it quite interesting. He didn't deserve the replies he got and I feel that the only reason this article is about gamedev at all is because the gamedev community were the ones who jumped on him (and probably only because he mentioned his Quake VR project).

humanrebar 6y ago

Does the author have no experience developing C++ on large teams or are you asserting that large team game dev is unique compared to other industries?

winterismute 6y ago
> or are you asserting that large team game dev is unique compared to other industries? Well, that would be a good question to ask to the author, since he titled the article "modern C++ gamedev" and not simply "modern C++" although to me what is discussed seems to be general enough, and "gamedev" here happens to be just the type of project the code comes from... To me, it does not look like he makes any significant contribution on how "modern C++ could serve specifically games development". IMHO he has detected that people in games react strongly to content about C++ and he benefits from the additional exposure he gets by putting "gamedev" in his C++ articles/tweets/anything (which is something I am not judging btw). Personally, I do think that when your code is simulating a whole parallel universe using a not-super-high-level language, you might end up with challenges regarding readability and flexibility of the raw code that other softwares might not encounter. Not being really part of that industry I feel I can't know for sure, and therefore I have applied the same reasoning to him since he is also not part of that industry, it seems.
- humanrebar 6y ago
  I have experience with large scale high performance C++, albeit not in games specifically. The recommendations in my experience are very sane, conservative even. I think at this point the onus is on critics to substantially respond to the points given. I don't think questioning credentials is particularly elucidating here. I don't see any reason the entire thesis of the article is flawed. As to the throwaway reference to gamedev, the article is in response to shade thrown by gamedevs, attempting to concede specific concerns and propose solutions.
  - eska 6y ago
    That's the thing though. Gamedevs aren't throwing shade, it's a strawman. Look at the twitter threas mentioned in the introduction and you'll see a bunch of civil gamedev industry veterans offering constructive criticism, only to be shut down with "that's misguided" and no counter argument. It gets old fast and it's been like this for dozens of years. I'm not surprised that they stop caring.
    - humanrebar 6y ago
      If you are making the point that Twitter arguments are counterproductive, I agree. I will concede all objections about tone because my life is too short to get dragged into Twitter tone policing. I do find the recommendations interesting and would like to keep the conversation about them. I would especially like to avoid gatekeeping and No True Scotsman arguments in a thread about code.
      - eska 6y ago
        No, I did not make the point that Twitter arguments are counterproductive at all o the contrary this one looks very productive EXCEPT for the author. So now you're straw manning me as well, then say I'm gatekeeping and no true-scotsmanning. I don't appreciate that all and am therefore out.
        humanrebar 6y ago
        - winterismute questioned qualifications to have a position on writing C++ for game dev. That is gatekeeping and No True Scotsman. - At least someone on Twitter called some tweets "retarded", etc., so OP thought to continue the conversation by ignoring nonsense and restating concerns in a healthier tone. This post is his attempt to be productive, apparently. - Any perceived slight against you, you have inferred. No offense intended. - Perhaps HN discussions are only marginally better than Twitter if people can't avoid making discussions about fold operators personally.
        6y ago

dkersten 6y ago

So? Doesn't mean people have to be toxic about a code snippet he posted because he found it interesting. Personally, I'm glad he posted about fold expressions, because I'm not up to date on C++17 yet and I found it quite interesting. He didn't deserve the replies he got and I feel that the only reason this article is about gamedev at all is because the gamedev community were the ones who jumped on him (and probably only because he mentioned his Quake VR project).