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I am replying to >Bundestag MPs gave standing ovations for care workers. Meanwhile those continue to slave away for pennies, now more precariously than ever, w

I am replying to >Bundestag MPs gave standing ovations for care workers. Meanwhile those continue to slave away for pennies, now more precariously than ever, while the next items on the MPs agenda are bailouts for airlines and fucking car manufacturers. Slaving away for pennies and immigrant workers, anything sounds familiar?

the-dude 6y ago
I have not the faintest clue where you get your immigrant angle from.
- econcon 6y ago
  Germany also imported farm labor from Romania and cramped them in airplanes without any social distancing. Meanwhile I hear lots of Germans don't really work and still get to live high quality life. I am here suggesting that Germany only cares about its own citizens as they help Germany enable control over capital and means of production, including technology financing, adminstration at the same time it doesn't care about immigrants as the supply is always there, up for grabs whenever a penny is thrown at them. I wouldn't be suprized if foreign people usually don't make executives of top companies in Germany. There is no reason for other EU countries to be coperate with Germany when it is known to treat people of other EU nation poorly.
  - duaoebg 6y ago
    Given how Germany usually treats their European neighbors this is still an improvement.
    - econcon 6y ago
      Replying to the-dude >For EU citizens, the EU is a labor transfer union by design. These 'imported laborers' were not forced, they took their chances No it's not that simple, other EU countries had to open their market to technologically superior Western European nations who had better quality highly skilled labor and capital. If it was simple, labor movement - I wouldn't even be bringing this up. >Are you seriously suggesting it is a problem foreigners are not making up the board of directors of German companies Yes it based on the fact number of immigrants Germany has. >As a direct neighbor of DE ( I am in NL ), DE seems to have been very generous accepting refugees. A bit too generous for some. It's just a knee jerk reaction to their aging population.
  - the-dude 6y ago
    I am not sure what your problem is. As a direct neighbor of DE ( I am in NL ), DE seems to have been very generous accepting refugees. A bit too generous for some. For EU citizens, the EU is a labor transfer union by design. These 'imported laborers' were not forced, they took their chances. Are you seriously suggesting it is a problem foreigners are not making up the board of directors of German companies? Still, I have no clue why you are bringing all of this into this discussion, although it reeks of projection.
  - hnhg 6y ago
    I don't know where you get your information from but it's largely fantasy. Perhaps you should spend some time in Germany getting to know it. Then you might also find the implication that Germans are lazy and getting foreigners to do their work for them laughable.
    - econcon 6y ago
      Here's the technical essay on this: https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-largest-economy-nobody-understands https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-... If people are against Chinese currency manipulation, they should be against what Germany does.
      - hnhg 6y ago
        That article doesn't say what you claim it does. It also covers a lot of stuff that would be no surprise to anyone in the EU (within and outside of Germany), and it's not particularly well put together either. Any article talking about German manufacturing that doesn't examine its Mittelstand in detail isn't worth much. There are tons of other points missing there too. Let's just say it's not great, but it sounds like you have an axe to grind so we should just leave it here.
        econcon 6y ago
        >Let's just say it's not great, but it sounds like you have an axe to grind so we should just leave it here. It's against HN guidelines. Suggesting ulterior motives behind my comments, is seen as a comment made in bad faith. Germany has great quality of life because it has managed to ship its underclass to East of Europe. If you don't believe this is true then why EU doesn't have free trade agreement with China or India? Yea you may suspect that their cheap low quality product will flood local market and outcompete the local producers. But how about high tech producers who have vastly superior technology and productivity flood poor countries with their high quality but cheap to produce products? Is that fine? All I am saying is, there should be no union and free movement of goods and people between poor country and rich country. When this happens, rich country becomes even richer and poor country does grow a bit but it's upside is limited in long run. And any farmer in Romania who has sold his land to Automobile companies from Germany can attest to it. Germany isn't a winner in EU because it's best, it's winner because it started off better. When EU was formed, German producers flooded eastern economies with their mass produced goods and bought out their lands and local companies. The opposite couldn't happen because Eastern producers were technically and capital wise behind. Unlike others I don't really believe in moral superiority of West European countries the fact that France still gets royalities from Africa (stinks of Imperialism) and Germany cramming Romanian farm laborers by not even offering them "social distancing" reeks of exploitation. As EU members figure out the con of perpetual poverty trap, they'll walk away from EU.
ido 6y ago
A large portion of every sector in Germany (aside from maybe the parliament) is immigrant workers, because Germany has a lot of immigrants (2nd highest foreign born population in the world, after the US): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... And particularly a lot of immigrants that come to Germany for work as it has a strong job market, relatively liberal immigration policy & a very old native population.

the-dude 6y ago

I have not the faintest clue where you get your immigrant angle from.

econcon 6y ago
Germany also imported farm labor from Romania and cramped them in airplanes without any social distancing. Meanwhile I hear lots of Germans don't really work and still get to live high quality life. I am here suggesting that Germany only cares about its own citizens as they help Germany enable control over capital and means of production, including technology financing, adminstration at the same time it doesn't care about immigrants as the supply is always there, up for grabs whenever a penny is thrown at them. I wouldn't be suprized if foreign people usually don't make executives of top companies in Germany. There is no reason for other EU countries to be coperate with Germany when it is known to treat people of other EU nation poorly.
- duaoebg 6y ago
  Given how Germany usually treats their European neighbors this is still an improvement.
  - econcon 6y ago
    Replying to the-dude >For EU citizens, the EU is a labor transfer union by design. These 'imported laborers' were not forced, they took their chances No it's not that simple, other EU countries had to open their market to technologically superior Western European nations who had better quality highly skilled labor and capital. If it was simple, labor movement - I wouldn't even be bringing this up. >Are you seriously suggesting it is a problem foreigners are not making up the board of directors of German companies Yes it based on the fact number of immigrants Germany has. >As a direct neighbor of DE ( I am in NL ), DE seems to have been very generous accepting refugees. A bit too generous for some. It's just a knee jerk reaction to their aging population.
- the-dude 6y ago
  I am not sure what your problem is. As a direct neighbor of DE ( I am in NL ), DE seems to have been very generous accepting refugees. A bit too generous for some. For EU citizens, the EU is a labor transfer union by design. These 'imported laborers' were not forced, they took their chances. Are you seriously suggesting it is a problem foreigners are not making up the board of directors of German companies? Still, I have no clue why you are bringing all of this into this discussion, although it reeks of projection.
- hnhg 6y ago
  I don't know where you get your information from but it's largely fantasy. Perhaps you should spend some time in Germany getting to know it. Then you might also find the implication that Germans are lazy and getting foreigners to do their work for them laughable.
  - econcon 6y ago
    Here's the technical essay on this: https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-largest-economy-nobody-understands https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-... If people are against Chinese currency manipulation, they should be against what Germany does.
    - hnhg 6y ago
      That article doesn't say what you claim it does. It also covers a lot of stuff that would be no surprise to anyone in the EU (within and outside of Germany), and it's not particularly well put together either. Any article talking about German manufacturing that doesn't examine its Mittelstand in detail isn't worth much. There are tons of other points missing there too. Let's just say it's not great, but it sounds like you have an axe to grind so we should just leave it here.
      - econcon 6y ago
        >Let's just say it's not great, but it sounds like you have an axe to grind so we should just leave it here. It's against HN guidelines. Suggesting ulterior motives behind my comments, is seen as a comment made in bad faith. Germany has great quality of life because it has managed to ship its underclass to East of Europe. If you don't believe this is true then why EU doesn't have free trade agreement with China or India? Yea you may suspect that their cheap low quality product will flood local market and outcompete the local producers. But how about high tech producers who have vastly superior technology and productivity flood poor countries with their high quality but cheap to produce products? Is that fine? All I am saying is, there should be no union and free movement of goods and people between poor country and rich country. When this happens, rich country becomes even richer and poor country does grow a bit but it's upside is limited in long run. And any farmer in Romania who has sold his land to Automobile companies from Germany can attest to it. Germany isn't a winner in EU because it's best, it's winner because it started off better. When EU was formed, German producers flooded eastern economies with their mass produced goods and bought out their lands and local companies. The opposite couldn't happen because Eastern producers were technically and capital wise behind. Unlike others I don't really believe in moral superiority of West European countries the fact that France still gets royalities from Africa (stinks of Imperialism) and Germany cramming Romanian farm laborers by not even offering them "social distancing" reeks of exploitation. As EU members figure out the con of perpetual poverty trap, they'll walk away from EU.

ido 6y ago

A large portion of every sector in Germany (aside from maybe the parliament) is immigrant workers, because Germany has a lot of immigrants (2nd highest foreign born population in the world, after the US): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... And particularly a lot of immigrants that come to Germany for work as it has a strong job market, relatively liberal immigration policy & a very old native population.