7 ms·

OpenBSD on the Microsoft Surface Go 2

183 points by rodrigo975 6y ago

Icyphox 6y ago
6.7 is just around the corner (19th May!) and I can't wait.
als0 6y ago
Love this guy's writeups and his blog in general. I'm interested to know whether he uses the Surface Go as a daily driver.
- sydney6 6y ago
  Then perhaps, you‘ll love his (formerly) podcast even more. https://garbage.jcs.org/ https://garbage.jcs.org/
  - h4waii 6y ago
    I really wish they would bring this back, was one of the best podcasts I've listened to.
numpad0 6y ago
> The Surface Pen ... the top eraser button which requires Bluetooth for some reason. It lets you launch OneNote from sleep out of pen input ranges, that’s the reason.
- Craighead 6y ago
  That's not really that great of a reason
  - hackmiester 6y ago
    Well, you have to communicate the clicking of the button somehow, right? I usually click it with my thumb - if it had to be within range to do that, it wouldn't be that useful, cause I'd have to ... I guess hold the pen upside down and click the button right on top of the screen? That certainly isn't the first way I would have tried to do it.
    - dingo_bat 6y ago
      S pen on Galaxy note phones has had the eraser button and the pen never had bluetooth until the latest version. Wonder how they do it?
- petee 6y ago
  Handy feature. I think their implication was that you can't use it as an eraser either, which is a bummer since no Bluetooth support
  - josteink 6y ago
    Indeed > OpenBSD does not support Bluetooth Anyone have the story behind that? An explicit desire not to support it or lack of manpower?
    - hellcow 6y ago
      No one stepped up to write and maintain it. https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=156519841415403&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=156519841415403&w=2
  - hackmiester 6y ago
    I hope this isn't the case... it certainly isn't on the Surface Pro 6. Erasing works fine, it's just clicking the eraser end of the pen that requires Bluetooth.
    - petee 6y ago
      That's just how I read it, maybe it is just the click; in afterthought, it would make little sense otherwise
eternalban 6y ago
Unsatisfied new user/owner of iPad Pro + keyboard + pen, generally happy OS X user here. Touch screen was the hook (as I dabble in visual arts) but for me this has proven to be a very expensive mistake. What are the issues/peeves with Surface Go? Is this space (touch screen large form factor mobile computing devices) generally underwhelming or is this simply Apple doing UX RnD on my dime?
- rjsw 6y ago
  I have a cheap HP convertable tablet/laptop. Windows 10 seems to work well with both touch screen and keyboard/touchpad to me so I would expect the Surface machines to be similar.
- kitotik 6y ago
  If you are looking for a somewhat realistic drawing/writing experience, Apple’s solution is pretty far ahead of Microsoft in almost every important factor: preciseness, accuracy, palm rejection, pressure sensitivity, stability. But that’s just actual pencil/stylus experience. Everything else is just a matter of taste and software availability.
  - aeneasmackenzie 6y ago
    A while back I walked into the mall of america to buy my wife a tablet to draw on. This was when the stores were right across from each other. Walk into the apple store, pick up an iPad, can't get it to vary line width by pressure with the stylus. Walk across the hall to the microsoft store, surface stylus works perfectly. Easy choice.
    - lloeki 6y ago
      You must have missed the critical “open Procreate” step. It was a instant buy for me.
- redacted 6y ago
  If you're looking for a general-purpose tablet computer I think the Surface lineup is nearly unparalleled, with some important caveats. You get a very well built machine with the best aspect ratio (3:2), Win10 tablet mode is decent _and_ you can drop back to full Windows whenever you want. This is a double edged sword - if you get a good tablet interface for a program it's wonderful, but sometimes you're reduced to pecking at the screen for mouse targets in legacy Win32 apps (the pen or cover with trackpad is helpful here). For me, the ability to run any software I want is worth the rough edges and inconsistency compared to an iPad. I have WSL for local dev with full Linux utilities, real Photoshop, alternate browsers, Steam games, etc. I can install whatever nifty little Windows utilities or tweaks I want, customize the machine exactly as I like it, and I feel like I have lot more ownership over the machine as a result. That flexibility definitely comes with a cost compared to the out-of-the-box experience with an iPad. As for the Go itself, its a really cute little computer but somewhat underpowered compared to a Surface Pro or Surface Book. I know a couple of people using them as their main computers and the feedback is pretty positive, FWIW.
canada_dry 6y ago
Also, here's a blog [i] that installs Debian w/ a customized kernel onto a Surface Go. [i] https://willem.com/blog/2020-03-09_making-my-own-tablet-os/#continue https://willem.com/blog/2020-03-09_making-my-own-tablet-os/#...
- zozbot234 6y ago
  Looks like the patched kernel is only needed to fix a minor bug in the kernel version OP ended up with. I assume that these issues will eventually be fixed directly in the mainline branch. Also, not sure why OP didn't boot from the "unofficial" USB image with included firmware, that would probably support WiFi directly and not need a separate wired connection.
GordonS 6y ago
Impressive, given I couldn't even get FreeBSD to boot at all in Hyper-V on Windows 10. I know the article is about OpenBSD, but still.
- agapon 6y ago
  What was the problem? We ran a large fleet on Hyper-V / Azure.
  - GordonS 6y ago
    It was a couple of months ago, so I don't recall exactly, but I think I couldn't get it to recognise the hard disk. Are you using any particular boot settings, and are you using IDE or SCSI (virtual) disks?
    - erk__ 6y ago
      I am currently running it with as far as I remember standard setting in Hyper-V, so it may have been some sperious error that happened to you.
    - agapon 6y ago
      I think that we use blkvsc and storvsc disks. I think that the former are used for boot.
  - josteink 6y ago
    I remember having issues with the default Ethernet-adapter, but getting it booted was never an issue. Maybe OP is misremembering his issues?
MuffinFlavored 6y ago
> OpenBSD does not support Bluetooth hmm...
- COVIDisntCORONA 6y ago
  Anymore. https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=140511572108715&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=140511572108715&w=2
masnao 6y ago
every six months I try to install linux on my surface sans-number (between 5 and 6 I guess), find bogus linux kernel, try it out, regret imensely. go back to crapy-but-still-better-than-osx windows 10. then six+ months passes, I somehow forget about all this and repeat. surface tablets would be a killer machine if I could dual boot linux on it for serious work.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  BayTrail and CherryTrail hardware has been like that for a very long time, now it works flawlessly. And there's a LOT of it in the used market - lots and lots of crappy Win8 and Win10-based "tablets" that can now become far more usable with Linux and the Gnome UX.
- halotrope 6y ago
  Installing this kernel makes it work amazing: https://github.com/jakeday/linux-surface https://github.com/jakeday/linux-surface
  - notpiika 6y ago
    I'd recommend the actively maintained https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface instead, which has support for newer Surface devices as well.
    - masnao 6y ago
      see this is what i mean. every kernel has pros and cons. all of them are wonderful until you hit a con.
- rowanG077 6y ago
  what issues have you been running into? I have been running Linux on the Surface Pro 5 solely without even having windows to dual boot for almost 3 years now.

183 points by rodrigo975 6y ago

6.7 is just around the corner (19th May!) and I can't wait.

als0 6y ago

Love this guy's writeups and his blog in general. I'm interested to know whether he uses the Surface Go as a daily driver.

sydney6 6y ago
Then perhaps, you‘ll love his (formerly) podcast even more. https://garbage.jcs.org/ https://garbage.jcs.org/
- h4waii 6y ago
  I really wish they would bring this back, was one of the best podcasts I've listened to.

numpad0 6y ago

> The Surface Pen ... the top eraser button which requires Bluetooth for some reason. It lets you launch OneNote from sleep out of pen input ranges, that’s the reason.

Craighead 6y ago
That's not really that great of a reason
- hackmiester 6y ago
  Well, you have to communicate the clicking of the button somehow, right? I usually click it with my thumb - if it had to be within range to do that, it wouldn't be that useful, cause I'd have to ... I guess hold the pen upside down and click the button right on top of the screen? That certainly isn't the first way I would have tried to do it.
  - dingo_bat 6y ago
    S pen on Galaxy note phones has had the eraser button and the pen never had bluetooth until the latest version. Wonder how they do it?
petee 6y ago
Handy feature. I think their implication was that you can't use it as an eraser either, which is a bummer since no Bluetooth support
- josteink 6y ago
  Indeed > OpenBSD does not support Bluetooth Anyone have the story behind that? An explicit desire not to support it or lack of manpower?
  - hellcow 6y ago
    No one stepped up to write and maintain it. https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=156519841415403&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=156519841415403&w=2
- hackmiester 6y ago
  I hope this isn't the case... it certainly isn't on the Surface Pro 6. Erasing works fine, it's just clicking the eraser end of the pen that requires Bluetooth.
  - petee 6y ago
    That's just how I read it, maybe it is just the click; in afterthought, it would make little sense otherwise

eternalban 6y ago

Unsatisfied new user/owner of iPad Pro + keyboard + pen, generally happy OS X user here. Touch screen was the hook (as I dabble in visual arts) but for me this has proven to be a very expensive mistake. What are the issues/peeves with Surface Go? Is this space (touch screen large form factor mobile computing devices) generally underwhelming or is this simply Apple doing UX RnD on my dime?

rjsw 6y ago
I have a cheap HP convertable tablet/laptop. Windows 10 seems to work well with both touch screen and keyboard/touchpad to me so I would expect the Surface machines to be similar.
kitotik 6y ago
If you are looking for a somewhat realistic drawing/writing experience, Apple’s solution is pretty far ahead of Microsoft in almost every important factor: preciseness, accuracy, palm rejection, pressure sensitivity, stability. But that’s just actual pencil/stylus experience. Everything else is just a matter of taste and software availability.
- aeneasmackenzie 6y ago
  A while back I walked into the mall of america to buy my wife a tablet to draw on. This was when the stores were right across from each other. Walk into the apple store, pick up an iPad, can't get it to vary line width by pressure with the stylus. Walk across the hall to the microsoft store, surface stylus works perfectly. Easy choice.
  - lloeki 6y ago
    You must have missed the critical “open Procreate” step. It was a instant buy for me.
redacted 6y ago
If you're looking for a general-purpose tablet computer I think the Surface lineup is nearly unparalleled, with some important caveats. You get a very well built machine with the best aspect ratio (3:2), Win10 tablet mode is decent _and_ you can drop back to full Windows whenever you want. This is a double edged sword - if you get a good tablet interface for a program it's wonderful, but sometimes you're reduced to pecking at the screen for mouse targets in legacy Win32 apps (the pen or cover with trackpad is helpful here). For me, the ability to run any software I want is worth the rough edges and inconsistency compared to an iPad. I have WSL for local dev with full Linux utilities, real Photoshop, alternate browsers, Steam games, etc. I can install whatever nifty little Windows utilities or tweaks I want, customize the machine exactly as I like it, and I feel like I have lot more ownership over the machine as a result. That flexibility definitely comes with a cost compared to the out-of-the-box experience with an iPad. As for the Go itself, its a really cute little computer but somewhat underpowered compared to a Surface Pro or Surface Book. I know a couple of people using them as their main computers and the feedback is pretty positive, FWIW.

canada_dry 6y ago

Also, here's a blog [i] that installs Debian w/ a customized kernel onto a Surface Go. [i] https://willem.com/blog/2020-03-09_making-my-own-tablet-os/#continue https://willem.com/blog/2020-03-09_making-my-own-tablet-os/#...

zozbot234 6y ago
Looks like the patched kernel is only needed to fix a minor bug in the kernel version OP ended up with. I assume that these issues will eventually be fixed directly in the mainline branch. Also, not sure why OP didn't boot from the "unofficial" USB image with included firmware, that would probably support WiFi directly and not need a separate wired connection.

GordonS 6y ago

Impressive, given I couldn't even get FreeBSD to boot at all in Hyper-V on Windows 10. I know the article is about OpenBSD, but still.

agapon 6y ago
What was the problem? We ran a large fleet on Hyper-V / Azure.
- GordonS 6y ago
  It was a couple of months ago, so I don't recall exactly, but I think I couldn't get it to recognise the hard disk. Are you using any particular boot settings, and are you using IDE or SCSI (virtual) disks?
  - erk__ 6y ago
    I am currently running it with as far as I remember standard setting in Hyper-V, so it may have been some sperious error that happened to you.
  - agapon 6y ago
    I think that we use blkvsc and storvsc disks. I think that the former are used for boot.
- josteink 6y ago
  I remember having issues with the default Ethernet-adapter, but getting it booted was never an issue. Maybe OP is misremembering his issues?

MuffinFlavored 6y ago

> OpenBSD does not support Bluetooth hmm...

COVIDisntCORONA 6y ago
Anymore. https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=140511572108715&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=140511572108715&w=2

masnao 6y ago

every six months I try to install linux on my surface sans-number (between 5 and 6 I guess), find bogus linux kernel, try it out, regret imensely. go back to crapy-but-still-better-than-osx windows 10. then six+ months passes, I somehow forget about all this and repeat. surface tablets would be a killer machine if I could dual boot linux on it for serious work.

zozbot234 6y ago
BayTrail and CherryTrail hardware has been like that for a very long time, now it works flawlessly. And there's a LOT of it in the used market - lots and lots of crappy Win8 and Win10-based "tablets" that can now become far more usable with Linux and the Gnome UX.
halotrope 6y ago
Installing this kernel makes it work amazing: https://github.com/jakeday/linux-surface https://github.com/jakeday/linux-surface
- notpiika 6y ago
  I'd recommend the actively maintained https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface instead, which has support for newer Surface devices as well.
  - masnao 6y ago
    see this is what i mean. every kernel has pros and cons. all of them are wonderful until you hit a con.
rowanG077 6y ago
what issues have you been running into? I have been running Linux on the Surface Pro 5 solely without even having windows to dual boot for almost 3 years now.