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Training kids like this reminds me of training AI itself: Make the reward getting a better grade and the kid will only optimize for that. Eventually the kid (t

by sdan 6y ago

Training kids like this reminds me of training AI itself: Make the reward getting a better grade and the kid will only optimize for that. Eventually the kid (the agent) will be out in the wild and they will have a weak understanding of what the reward is and how to optimize for it (it will be harder for a fine-tuned kid to do domain adaptation towards different and more abstract fields and problems).

spideymans 6y ago
There’s another side to this issue too: Professors themselves are often optimizing their content for testability, rather than for providing actual, functional lifelong knowledge.
- bsder 6y ago
  > Professors themselves are often optimizing their content for testability, rather than for providing actual, functional lifelong knowledge. Hah! I think you have this backwards. Most professors are quite concerned about imparting knowledge when the vast majority of the students simply want a piece of paper with the University's logo on it. I knew of very few professors in electrical engineering or computer science who tried to optimize for "testability".
  - Stammon 6y ago
    The choice of using the word professor, seems misleading to me. Far more often teachers will adjust their content to ensure optimal performance in tests. Especially in a education system like this. I can only imagine what side effects this must have for motivation. When you are cautiously trying to appear focused, can you even develop a passion for a subject?
    - bsder 6y ago
      Oh, you mean high school. In the US, at least, the answer is actually "Yes. You can even develop a passion for a subject and instill it into your students." My father taught English almost 4 decades in a very rural school. No Child Left Behind had him quite concerned intially. Until it came down ... He laughed at it. "Flag poor students early"--okay, his grades were in Excel since he was terrible at math--sort, print, tell administrators to go away. "Need writing samples"--"I have two entire filing cabinets of writing assignments for this years classes. Which drawers do you want?" Now, I have to avoid generalizing. My father did not teach in an inner city school (the area had brutal poverty--but probably less crime) where they were continuously under threat of being forced closed by the government. He also did not teach in China or South Korea where getting the piece of paper seems even worse than the US. However, the US isn't as brutal on the "teach to the test" fronts as many other places.

by sdan 6y ago

spideymans 6y ago

There’s another side to this issue too: Professors themselves are often optimizing their content for testability, rather than for providing actual, functional lifelong knowledge.

bsder 6y ago
> Professors themselves are often optimizing their content for testability, rather than for providing actual, functional lifelong knowledge. Hah! I think you have this backwards. Most professors are quite concerned about imparting knowledge when the vast majority of the students simply want a piece of paper with the University's logo on it. I knew of very few professors in electrical engineering or computer science who tried to optimize for "testability".
- Stammon 6y ago
  The choice of using the word professor, seems misleading to me. Far more often teachers will adjust their content to ensure optimal performance in tests. Especially in a education system like this. I can only imagine what side effects this must have for motivation. When you are cautiously trying to appear focused, can you even develop a passion for a subject?
  - bsder 6y ago
    Oh, you mean high school. In the US, at least, the answer is actually "Yes. You can even develop a passion for a subject and instill it into your students." My father taught English almost 4 decades in a very rural school. No Child Left Behind had him quite concerned intially. Until it came down ... He laughed at it. "Flag poor students early"--okay, his grades were in Excel since he was terrible at math--sort, print, tell administrators to go away. "Need writing samples"--"I have two entire filing cabinets of writing assignments for this years classes. Which drawers do you want?" Now, I have to avoid generalizing. My father did not teach in an inner city school (the area had brutal poverty--but probably less crime) where they were continuously under threat of being forced closed by the government. He also did not teach in China or South Korea where getting the piece of paper seems even worse than the US. However, the US isn't as brutal on the "teach to the test" fronts as many other places.