5 ms·

FWIW, this wasn't my experience at all, but also there may be differences between the US and Europe. I went to a unremarkable top 50 state school in the US, gra

FWIW, this wasn't my experience at all, but also there may be differences between the US and Europe. I went to a unremarkable top 50 state school in the US, graduated with a 3.0 GPA BS in CS, had a single internship at a no-name local company, no research experience, no referral, no significant personal projects, no TAing experience, and I got interviews at Amazon, Facebook, and Google by cold applying online. It was at the smaller companies and startups where I couldn't get past the resume screen, likely because unlike FAANG they can't afford to interview literally tens of thousands of candidates every year.

mettamage 6y ago
The reality hurts so much, and it's upsetting to me I can't be more grateful (some people that I know are homeless and hungry, relatively rare in The Netherlands but it's there). I should've done my own research when I was young, but I was young. I didn't know that going to the US would be so tough, no one tells you. 18 months of not even being looked at in most cases, especially US companies (some Dutch companies did). I am constantly borderlining a mild depression now that I think of it. It just feels so fucked up to not have one phone screen at my 1st pick companies but coding grads do (e.g. Full Stack Academy in New York). My CS master grade was an A [1, EU grading system explained]. I'm sorry for writing all of this, the GPA 3.0 got me triggered. I think it's because I'm from Amsterdam and not from the US. I've also noticed by watching YouTube that US people had an easier time applying to Google as a grad, a way easier time in fact. I have found no videos of Europeans doing something similar. Not that I have looked, I simply come across them. It feels that my predicted future was a complete lie. I failed in my goal, spectacularly. Everything I gave up for it was in vain. Getting to FAANG later won't be the same, it's not the career trajectory/velocity I want. I should've partied a lot more. That would've been fun. I do appreciate the education though. Perhaps I should find a career coach. [1] European GPA: 8.1 out of 10, European grades are much harsher, a 10 means a god-like level in many cases, I don't think anyone has gotten a 10 as a GPA, 9.1 or 9.2 means you're the best or one of the best in the country/
- akiselev 6y ago
  That almost certainly has nothing to do with you - hiring a fresh graduate through the H1B program is practically impossible in my experience. H1B applicants have to show "significant work experience" in a relevant field and unless you have a PhD (and often times even then), any work experience gained during your education will not count towards that requirement. Most companies won't even bother with the interview; 18 months sounds like the bare minimum to even have a chance at meeting the requirements.
- mettamage 6y ago
  @akiselev: I haven't only been applying to US locations of US companies (e.g. Google Switzerland). But a SWE from Google gave me a referral link to which I'm grateful. I wonder to what extent it will help though since it went through HN and we just met. I want a phone screen and be told that I am or am not good enough. I can have peace with this if one FAANG company shoots me down on my D&A skills. For my own sanity, I've resigned to the idea that I'm not going to get a phone screen as I have little faith in the Google referral to help me past the resume check, but we'll see.
  - akiselev 6y ago
    I don't know how many satellite offices you've applied to in the EU but I bet your sample size is very small. Don't get discouraged! Hiring processes at most companies are byzantine, multinationals even more so. It's really hard to tell who's pulling the strings or what the constraints are unless you're directly involved in the hiring decisions. I've passed on at least one once-in-a-lifetime hire (brilliant engineer from the Indian space program) just because I thought the H1B paperwork would interfere with a project deadline since my employer was a startup and didn't have the HR infrastructure a big company would have. More importantly: fuck them. Don't judge your self worth based on the latest shiny megacorp's inscrutable interview process.
    - mettamage 6y ago
      > Don't judge your self worth based on the latest shiny megacorp's inscrutable interview process. The following comment might be too candid and too unpopular. I'm sorry about that. I need to write it down somewhere with the potential for some interaction (it helps me learn). I know I'm not alone in this feeling though. Though, I'm pretty sure the majority of people won't share my opinion. So either there is something I should correct in myself, or I'm a bit odd regarding what I'm about to say. I guess some financially independent people feel similar about this --- It's not about self-worth. My financial worth depends on it and with it the freedom and possibilities I have. Now, I maybe be biased in how I view my options. Which is why I said, maybe I should find a career coach. The way I see it: no job at FAANG means less secure freedom. There is a lot of freedom to be had as an entrepreneur, or as an artist. It's also a lot less secure. There are indeed drawbacks for being in golden handcuffs and not having a lot of free time when working at FAANG. But as far as I can tell: while the freedom is skewed towards money and not time, if you don't have lifestyle inflation and save up the money, you can retire quite a bit earlier. I want freedom. I want to retire earlier. And now that I know that I have to work at least until I'm 67, because I can't get an amazing career start, that hurts. I know it's a spoiled statement to make compared to the rest of the population and perhaps even an insult to the world to consider this normal. Nevertheless, I've worked for this goal in particular and I'm seeing nothing of it back. My family has worked at this as well, they did their best into letting me succeed. Yet, I spectacurlarly failed. I'm not worth less because of it, but financially I am worth less because of it. And because I'm worth less financially, I am able to do less with the life that I want to do. Of the waking hours: - 50% of my life is spent working - 25% of my life is spent doing mundane tasks - 25% of my life is spent doing what I want If I could increase from 25% to 100%, then in a sense I live 4 times as long. Note: I like programming, but I don't love it. For me programming is similar to physically moving around, except now I'm physically moving around in the digital world. I like to do it when it's needed, but not much more than that. I'm not an athlete (a person who only loves physical movement). There are so many things that I love (that don't make any money or are very risky). I want to do those things instead, but I've seen with a lot of family members how that turns out (bad). Startup failures are real. Life changing successes don't come around often, if at all. This is even the case when you're a person who does everything right. Now I know that I have to be happy with living a life like the rest of us: mostly doing things that I don't want to do but have to. I know I have to grow up in this sense (despite my age), but it's a gloomy future and one I don't get excited by. It feels too boring. I don't really see the point of it other than raising children and doing your best they can live a life that feels fulfilling to them, if you have them already. If you don't, then one should reflect deeply on whether they want to burden their children with a father who feels that life is too boring (because they are mostly doing things they don't want to do) and couldn't care less.

mettamage 6y ago

The reality hurts so much, and it's upsetting to me I can't be more grateful (some people that I know are homeless and hungry, relatively rare in The Netherlands but it's there). I should've done my own research when I was young, but I was young. I didn't know that going to the US would be so tough, no one tells you. 18 months of not even being looked at in most cases, especially US companies (some Dutch companies did). I am constantly borderlining a mild depression now that I think of it. It just feels so fucked up to not have one phone screen at my 1st pick companies but coding grads do (e.g. Full Stack Academy in New York). My CS master grade was an A [1, EU grading system explained]. I'm sorry for writing all of this, the GPA 3.0 got me triggered. I think it's because I'm from Amsterdam and not from the US. I've also noticed by watching YouTube that US people had an easier time applying to Google as a grad, a way easier time in fact. I have found no videos of Europeans doing something similar. Not that I have looked, I simply come across them. It feels that my predicted future was a complete lie. I failed in my goal, spectacularly. Everything I gave up for it was in vain. Getting to FAANG later won't be the same, it's not the career trajectory/velocity I want. I should've partied a lot more. That would've been fun. I do appreciate the education though. Perhaps I should find a career coach. [1] European GPA: 8.1 out of 10, European grades are much harsher, a 10 means a god-like level in many cases, I don't think anyone has gotten a 10 as a GPA, 9.1 or 9.2 means you're the best or one of the best in the country/

akiselev 6y ago
That almost certainly has nothing to do with you - hiring a fresh graduate through the H1B program is practically impossible in my experience. H1B applicants have to show "significant work experience" in a relevant field and unless you have a PhD (and often times even then), any work experience gained during your education will not count towards that requirement. Most companies won't even bother with the interview; 18 months sounds like the bare minimum to even have a chance at meeting the requirements.
mettamage 6y ago
@akiselev: I haven't only been applying to US locations of US companies (e.g. Google Switzerland). But a SWE from Google gave me a referral link to which I'm grateful. I wonder to what extent it will help though since it went through HN and we just met. I want a phone screen and be told that I am or am not good enough. I can have peace with this if one FAANG company shoots me down on my D&A skills. For my own sanity, I've resigned to the idea that I'm not going to get a phone screen as I have little faith in the Google referral to help me past the resume check, but we'll see.
- akiselev 6y ago
  I don't know how many satellite offices you've applied to in the EU but I bet your sample size is very small. Don't get discouraged! Hiring processes at most companies are byzantine, multinationals even more so. It's really hard to tell who's pulling the strings or what the constraints are unless you're directly involved in the hiring decisions. I've passed on at least one once-in-a-lifetime hire (brilliant engineer from the Indian space program) just because I thought the H1B paperwork would interfere with a project deadline since my employer was a startup and didn't have the HR infrastructure a big company would have. More importantly: fuck them. Don't judge your self worth based on the latest shiny megacorp's inscrutable interview process.
  - mettamage 6y ago
    > Don't judge your self worth based on the latest shiny megacorp's inscrutable interview process. The following comment might be too candid and too unpopular. I'm sorry about that. I need to write it down somewhere with the potential for some interaction (it helps me learn). I know I'm not alone in this feeling though. Though, I'm pretty sure the majority of people won't share my opinion. So either there is something I should correct in myself, or I'm a bit odd regarding what I'm about to say. I guess some financially independent people feel similar about this --- It's not about self-worth. My financial worth depends on it and with it the freedom and possibilities I have. Now, I maybe be biased in how I view my options. Which is why I said, maybe I should find a career coach. The way I see it: no job at FAANG means less secure freedom. There is a lot of freedom to be had as an entrepreneur, or as an artist. It's also a lot less secure. There are indeed drawbacks for being in golden handcuffs and not having a lot of free time when working at FAANG. But as far as I can tell: while the freedom is skewed towards money and not time, if you don't have lifestyle inflation and save up the money, you can retire quite a bit earlier. I want freedom. I want to retire earlier. And now that I know that I have to work at least until I'm 67, because I can't get an amazing career start, that hurts. I know it's a spoiled statement to make compared to the rest of the population and perhaps even an insult to the world to consider this normal. Nevertheless, I've worked for this goal in particular and I'm seeing nothing of it back. My family has worked at this as well, they did their best into letting me succeed. Yet, I spectacurlarly failed. I'm not worth less because of it, but financially I am worth less because of it. And because I'm worth less financially, I am able to do less with the life that I want to do. Of the waking hours: - 50% of my life is spent working - 25% of my life is spent doing mundane tasks - 25% of my life is spent doing what I want If I could increase from 25% to 100%, then in a sense I live 4 times as long. Note: I like programming, but I don't love it. For me programming is similar to physically moving around, except now I'm physically moving around in the digital world. I like to do it when it's needed, but not much more than that. I'm not an athlete (a person who only loves physical movement). There are so many things that I love (that don't make any money or are very risky). I want to do those things instead, but I've seen with a lot of family members how that turns out (bad). Startup failures are real. Life changing successes don't come around often, if at all. This is even the case when you're a person who does everything right. Now I know that I have to be happy with living a life like the rest of us: mostly doing things that I don't want to do but have to. I know I have to grow up in this sense (despite my age), but it's a gloomy future and one I don't get excited by. It feels too boring. I don't really see the point of it other than raising children and doing your best they can live a life that feels fulfilling to them, if you have them already. If you don't, then one should reflect deeply on whether they want to burden their children with a father who feels that life is too boring (because they are mostly doing things they don't want to do) and couldn't care less.