8 ms·

Doom Eternal's Anti-cheat installs a driver to ring-0 kernel

45 points by friendlybus 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
excalibur 6y ago
System-security-compromising anti-cheat spyware? What happened to IDKFA?
- mycall 6y ago
  Run it on a game only computer, reformat when done playing.
  - m-p-3 6y ago
    Next step is to buy a game console for the deepest lack of control over your system.
_bxg1 6y ago
Stuff like this makes me glad that I use my gaming PC for almost nothing but gaming.
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Does this prevent me from inspecting memory on my own machine? It's pretty crummy this is released after the fact. I could see this affecting people's purchasing decision if it had shipped with the game.
cocoa19 6y ago
Similar posts from last month about League of Legends and Valorant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22855600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22855600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22230168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22230168
bzb3 6y ago
That's good. Signed: CSGO player who's tired of cheaters.
- ta17711771 6y ago
  Insane suggestion: play with groups of friends. Or, rootkityour machine to open it to random devs who may (or may not!) be able to be trusted to secure their own deployment/update servers......
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    What does playing with friends do about cheaters on the enemy team? Unless you mean exclusively friend vs friend, which isn't a good replacement for a regional ladder in general
    - ta17711771 6y ago
      I don't know any regional ladder that could convince me to rootkit my machine. This whole concept is just too inane for me to grasp, if I'm honest.
- hddherman 6y ago
  Funny you mention CSGO. I think the CSGO anti-cheat implementation, which consists of VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) to catch the obvious cheats, the reporting and reviewing system (think it was called Overwatch) and the new trust/reputation system, is actually an overall much more acceptable solution than a high-privileged kernel driver.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    I think the reason people go straight to something like an anti-cheat driver first is that they think "technology created this problem, therefore technology must fix it", despite the fact that the only possible ways to "fix" it using technology requires dangerous/invasive technologies, when what is really needed is a social solution. Unfortunately, too often those who don't fully understand the implications of say "Lets install a program with full R/W access to the computer to fix this" or "Lets get rid of all encryption on the internet" are the ones making the rules. /rant This comment kind of grew beyond scope, so sorry about that. Edit for clarity/formatting.
nokya 6y ago
I removed it from my wishlist. I only play SP and there are plenty other games by editors who didn't take such shortcuts...
gentleman11 6y ago
It’s weird how much access our games have to our systems. I always assumed that they were at least a little sandboxed until I started working in my unity game and found I could read/write any file anywhere I tested
- ta17711771 6y ago
  We need to stop supporting devs who don't respect our security + privacy.
grawprog 6y ago
Ya know, I constantly hear arguments about why things like this are necessary and how cheaters are ruining games, yet I play an online game that's supposedly full of cheaters, to the point where the Devs themselves sent out an apology and asked for cheaters to be reported, yet i've never really noticed it. There's definitely been a couple times I'm pretty sure someone's cheating, but after the game ends I don't really care any more and I just start a new one. I dunno, I mean I grew up in the wild west of online games where pretty much games got taken over by hackers to the point where you couldn't play unless you hacked too. Modern games by comparison are far better to play in that regards, even ones apparently full of hackers. You've never seen hacking until you've stepped into a diablo 2 open battlenet server and somehow managed to die in town on spawning and then had your save file corrupted when you accidently picked up the glitched item next to your corpse and even when you had a full set of items hacked to the point where you needed a magnifying glass to read what it does and your on screen character is glitched beyond recognition, some motherfucker comes up and one shots you.
- pastrami_panda 6y ago
  Do note hacking typically takes place in higher ranks since that's where the cheaters typically end up. The vast majority of players that play in the lower ranks only encounter the cheaters as they climb the ranks which presumably happens rather quick compared to non-cheaters.
wildpeaks 6y ago
Ironically, Bethesda had regained some goodwill recently because they published some of their titles on GOG (therefore DRM-free) some months ago, but this new move just erased it, especially by doing this as an update (to avoid bad press at launch).
LinuxBender 6y ago
I am not a fan of software that taints the OS in this manor. While I do not play Doom on Linux, I suppose the way I would address this would be to PXE boot a Doom specific image and persist writable directories into a Doom specific NFS or CIFS share. That might be too much effort for folks that just want to play a game however. It works great for lab setups that require bare metal.

45 points by friendlybus 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

excalibur 6y ago

System-security-compromising anti-cheat spyware? What happened to IDKFA?

mycall 6y ago
Run it on a game only computer, reformat when done playing.
- m-p-3 6y ago
  Next step is to buy a game console for the deepest lack of control over your system.

_bxg1 6y ago

Stuff like this makes me glad that I use my gaming PC for almost nothing but gaming.

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

Does this prevent me from inspecting memory on my own machine? It's pretty crummy this is released after the fact. I could see this affecting people's purchasing decision if it had shipped with the game.

cocoa19 6y ago

Similar posts from last month about League of Legends and Valorant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22855600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22855600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22230168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22230168

bzb3 6y ago

That's good. Signed: CSGO player who's tired of cheaters.

ta17711771 6y ago
Insane suggestion: play with groups of friends. Or, rootkityour machine to open it to random devs who may (or may not!) be able to be trusted to secure their own deployment/update servers......
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  What does playing with friends do about cheaters on the enemy team? Unless you mean exclusively friend vs friend, which isn't a good replacement for a regional ladder in general
  - ta17711771 6y ago
    I don't know any regional ladder that could convince me to rootkit my machine. This whole concept is just too inane for me to grasp, if I'm honest.
hddherman 6y ago
Funny you mention CSGO. I think the CSGO anti-cheat implementation, which consists of VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) to catch the obvious cheats, the reporting and reviewing system (think it was called Overwatch) and the new trust/reputation system, is actually an overall much more acceptable solution than a high-privileged kernel driver.
- Shared404 6y ago
  I think the reason people go straight to something like an anti-cheat driver first is that they think "technology created this problem, therefore technology must fix it", despite the fact that the only possible ways to "fix" it using technology requires dangerous/invasive technologies, when what is really needed is a social solution. Unfortunately, too often those who don't fully understand the implications of say "Lets install a program with full R/W access to the computer to fix this" or "Lets get rid of all encryption on the internet" are the ones making the rules. /rant This comment kind of grew beyond scope, so sorry about that. Edit for clarity/formatting.

nokya 6y ago

I removed it from my wishlist. I only play SP and there are plenty other games by editors who didn't take such shortcuts...

gentleman11 6y ago

It’s weird how much access our games have to our systems. I always assumed that they were at least a little sandboxed until I started working in my unity game and found I could read/write any file anywhere I tested

ta17711771 6y ago
We need to stop supporting devs who don't respect our security + privacy.

grawprog 6y ago

Ya know, I constantly hear arguments about why things like this are necessary and how cheaters are ruining games, yet I play an online game that's supposedly full of cheaters, to the point where the Devs themselves sent out an apology and asked for cheaters to be reported, yet i've never really noticed it. There's definitely been a couple times I'm pretty sure someone's cheating, but after the game ends I don't really care any more and I just start a new one. I dunno, I mean I grew up in the wild west of online games where pretty much games got taken over by hackers to the point where you couldn't play unless you hacked too. Modern games by comparison are far better to play in that regards, even ones apparently full of hackers. You've never seen hacking until you've stepped into a diablo 2 open battlenet server and somehow managed to die in town on spawning and then had your save file corrupted when you accidently picked up the glitched item next to your corpse and even when you had a full set of items hacked to the point where you needed a magnifying glass to read what it does and your on screen character is glitched beyond recognition, some motherfucker comes up and one shots you.

pastrami_panda 6y ago
Do note hacking typically takes place in higher ranks since that's where the cheaters typically end up. The vast majority of players that play in the lower ranks only encounter the cheaters as they climb the ranks which presumably happens rather quick compared to non-cheaters.

wildpeaks 6y ago

Ironically, Bethesda had regained some goodwill recently because they published some of their titles on GOG (therefore DRM-free) some months ago, but this new move just erased it, especially by doing this as an update (to avoid bad press at launch).

LinuxBender 6y ago

I am not a fan of software that taints the OS in this manor. While I do not play Doom on Linux, I suppose the way I would address this would be to PXE boot a Doom specific image and persist writable directories into a Doom specific NFS or CIFS share. That might be too much effort for folks that just want to play a game however. It works great for lab setups that require bare metal.