6 ms·

I hate to be -that- Greek, but the word typhoon in English is arguably either Greek or Arabic in origin. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=typhoon http:/

I hate to be -that- Greek, but the word typhoon in English is arguably either Greek or Arabic in origin. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=typhoon http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=typhoon May the mocking commence.

patio11 16y ago
Well, you learn something new every day. (The Japanese word, borrowed from Chinese, sounds like "taifuu.")
- burke 16y ago
  I had to stop and think about that one for a while. Are there any cases that you know of where a Japanese word is anglicized before becoming an English word? It seems like english speakers have an easy enough time guessing at Japanese pronunciation that we normally keep the direct romanization. This is why "typhoon" seemed weird to me. It makes a lot more sense that both languages would have imported it from Greek.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - chc 16y ago
    Actually, there are several like that. The most salient one in this case would be "tycoon." A few more: - skosh - bokeh (a photography term referring to a certain kind of blur in English) - rickshaw
    - Paulomus 16y ago
      You can see the etymology of tycoon at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_magnate#Etymology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_magnate#Etymology The borrowing pre-dates the Hepburn romanization system which wasn't developed until the 1880's.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    Unlikely. The first character in taifuu means "big", and the second means "wind". They came up with this on their own; and it's simply a coincidence that other languages have a word that sounds similar.
    - chc 16y ago
      Besides that, I'm pretty sure the original Greek word was pronounced something like "to fawn." It's only once English speakers bastardized it that it started to resemble the Japanese word.
    - angus77 16y ago
      Actually, the first character in typhoon is 「台」, which means something like "stand" or "platform". It's also the first character in "Taiwan". I've read before that the word "typhoon" was of Arabic origin and came to Japan from Chinese, but the word spread to the West via Japan.
      - Umofomia 16y ago
        The original traditional Chinese character is 颱; the Japanese adopted the character 台 as a simplification of the original character (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinjitai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinjitai). Therefore, the "stand" or "platform" meanings of the 台 character are unrelated to that of 颱.
        angus77 16y ago
        If you follow the link to 颱 from the wikipedia page to the wiktionary entry, you'll find that: a) 台 is the simplified version of 颱 in modern Chinese b) there is nothing in the entry that suggests it means "great" or "big", and that, in fact, the one character translates as "typhoon" Also, if you check out the Japanese wikipedia page for 台風, you'll find that the Japanese spelled it 颱風 up until 1956. There's also a rational for the 台風 spelling suggesting that it may have meant that typhoons were great winds that came from the direction of Taiwan, which is why the 台　character was used (although none of the suggested etymologies are yet proven).
_delirium 16y ago
Interesting. The OED suggests that the word may have been borrowed into English three times, with the forms then converging, and settling on a Greek-transliteration type spelling. The three lines they trace are: 'typhon' from Greek, circa 1550s; 'touffon' or 'tufan' from Portuguese circa 1580s, via Urdu, possibly originally from Greek or Arabic; and 'tuffoon' or 'tuffan', from Chinese 'tai fung', circa 1700. It's possible the spelling is mainly from Greek, while the usage and modern meaning is mainly via a separate borrowing.
justinchen 16y ago
Interesting narrative of the different originations. http://books.google.com/books?id=sMiRc-JFIfMC&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=typhoon+greek+arab+origin+book&source=bl&ots=XKj8BHkZCI&sig=cvFO1nTZ0v5ni2dh0el8xkO4h-o&hl=en&ei=qgN0TeS0HYT78AaX35W2DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=sMiRc-JFIfMC&pg=PA141&#...
wazoox 16y ago
Typhon is a Greek titan, master of the winds. By some coincidence, the english derivative "Typhoon" sounds very much like the Japanese word "taifu", but it's obviously unrelated. The English (an other European languages) word definitely comes from Greek. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon
- Paulomus 16y ago
  I think it is more correct to say that all the typhoon words derive from Greek (or at least a common source). Europeans borrowed a cognate local word (tufan) to describe the cyclones of the Indian Ocean and 'correcred' the spelling to the Greek roots. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=typhoon&searchmode=none http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=typhoon&searc...

patio11 16y ago

Well, you learn something new every day. (The Japanese word, borrowed from Chinese, sounds like "taifuu.")

burke 16y ago
I had to stop and think about that one for a while. Are there any cases that you know of where a Japanese word is anglicized before becoming an English word? It seems like english speakers have an easy enough time guessing at Japanese pronunciation that we normally keep the direct romanization. This is why "typhoon" seemed weird to me. It makes a lot more sense that both languages would have imported it from Greek.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- chc 16y ago
  Actually, there are several like that. The most salient one in this case would be "tycoon." A few more: - skosh - bokeh (a photography term referring to a certain kind of blur in English) - rickshaw
  - Paulomus 16y ago
    You can see the etymology of tycoon at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_magnate#Etymology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_magnate#Etymology The borrowing pre-dates the Hepburn romanization system which wasn't developed until the 1880's.
- jrockway 16y ago
  Unlikely. The first character in taifuu means "big", and the second means "wind". They came up with this on their own; and it's simply a coincidence that other languages have a word that sounds similar.
  - chc 16y ago
    Besides that, I'm pretty sure the original Greek word was pronounced something like "to fawn." It's only once English speakers bastardized it that it started to resemble the Japanese word.
  - angus77 16y ago
    Actually, the first character in typhoon is 「台」, which means something like "stand" or "platform". It's also the first character in "Taiwan". I've read before that the word "typhoon" was of Arabic origin and came to Japan from Chinese, but the word spread to the West via Japan.
    - Umofomia 16y ago
      The original traditional Chinese character is 颱; the Japanese adopted the character 台 as a simplification of the original character (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinjitai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinjitai). Therefore, the "stand" or "platform" meanings of the 台 character are unrelated to that of 颱.
      - angus77 16y ago
        If you follow the link to 颱 from the wikipedia page to the wiktionary entry, you'll find that: a) 台 is the simplified version of 颱 in modern Chinese b) there is nothing in the entry that suggests it means "great" or "big", and that, in fact, the one character translates as "typhoon" Also, if you check out the Japanese wikipedia page for 台風, you'll find that the Japanese spelled it 颱風 up until 1956. There's also a rational for the 台風 spelling suggesting that it may have meant that typhoons were great winds that came from the direction of Taiwan, which is why the 台　character was used (although none of the suggested etymologies are yet proven).

_delirium 16y ago

Interesting. The OED suggests that the word may have been borrowed into English three times, with the forms then converging, and settling on a Greek-transliteration type spelling. The three lines they trace are: 'typhon' from Greek, circa 1550s; 'touffon' or 'tufan' from Portuguese circa 1580s, via Urdu, possibly originally from Greek or Arabic; and 'tuffoon' or 'tuffan', from Chinese 'tai fung', circa 1700. It's possible the spelling is mainly from Greek, while the usage and modern meaning is mainly via a separate borrowing.

justinchen 16y ago

Interesting narrative of the different originations. http://books.google.com/books?id=sMiRc-JFIfMC&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=typhoon+greek+arab+origin+book&source=bl&ots=XKj8BHkZCI&sig=cvFO1nTZ0v5ni2dh0el8xkO4h-o&hl=en&ei=qgN0TeS0HYT78AaX35W2DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=sMiRc-JFIfMC&pg=PA141&#...

wazoox 16y ago

Typhon is a Greek titan, master of the winds. By some coincidence, the english derivative "Typhoon" sounds very much like the Japanese word "taifu", but it's obviously unrelated. The English (an other European languages) word definitely comes from Greek. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon

Paulomus 16y ago
I think it is more correct to say that all the typhoon words derive from Greek (or at least a common source). Europeans borrowed a cognate local word (tufan) to describe the cyclones of the Indian Ocean and 'correcred' the spelling to the Greek roots. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=typhoon&searchmode=none http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=typhoon&searc...