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Boeing's 737 Max debacle killed two plane-fuls of people. It's pretty hard to argue that either Amazon or Google has had negative effects on that magnitude.

TylerE 7y ago
So do you believe Ford deserves to exist? Because they’ve killed a lot more people through faulty engineeeing than Boeing. The Pinto fuel system alone killed over 900 people
- coredog64 7y ago
  Gonna need a citation on that. NHTSA says 27, with ~100 lawsuits filed against Ford.
nitrogen 7y ago
I don't think it's particularly useful to compare across industries like this, especially when invoking an "appeal to worse problems" to justify ignoring a problem under discussion.
- renewiltord 7y ago
  > > > Are any of those companies (except Amazon) even in the same league in terms of negative impact as big tech? > > Boeing's 737 Max debacle killed two plane-fuls of people. It's pretty hard to argue that either Amazon or Google has had negative effects on that magnitude. > I don't think it's particularly useful to compare across industries like this, especially when invoking an "appeal to worse problems" to justify ignoring a problem under discussion. Interesting sequence of comments. Perhaps you placed yours at the wrong level but it certainly doesn't look like good faith at the moment.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    Death count is not the only way to measure how bad something is.
pjc50 7y ago
Boeing are a strategic defense capability that happen to make civilian aircraft. The US is going to prop them up to keep Airbus from dominating.
dredmorbius 7y ago
I don't have an example at hand directly involving Google or Amazon (though these may well exist), but if you'll accept a case in which another cavalier tech monopoly has directly contributed to massive loss of life, there is the case of the ongoing Myanmar genocide: In August 2018, a study[86] estimated that more than 24,000+ Rohingya people were killed by the Myanmar military and the local Buddhists since the "clearance operations" started on 25 August 2017. The study[86] also estimated that more than 18,000 Rohingya Muslim women and girls were raped, 116,000 Rohingya were beaten, 36,000 Rohingya were thrown into fire,[86][87][88][89][90][91] burned down and destroyed 354 Rohingya villages in Rakhine state,[92] looted many Rohingya houses,[93] committed widespread gang rapes and other forms of sexual violence against the Rohingya Muslim women and girls.[94][95][96] The military drive also displaced a large number of Rohingya people and made them refugees. According to the United Nations reports, as of January 2018, nearly 690,000 Rohingya people had fled or had been driven out of Rakhine state who then took shelter in the neighboring Bangladesh as refugees.[97] In December, two Reuters journalists who had been covering the Inn Din massacre event were arrested and imprisoned.[97] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_Myanmar#2017–present_Rohingya_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_Myan... The company involved, Facebook: is Facebook really doing all it can to try to halt the spread of violence? Not according to the United Nations’ Fact-Finding Mission on Myanmar, which released its own report on Tuesday looking into the causes of the genocide that has taken place against the Rohingya in that country. Among other recommendations, the UN report says any commercial entity doing business in Myanmar should not “enter into an economic or financial relationship with the security forces,” including the military police, known as the Tatmadaw. https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/facebook-un-myanmar-genocide.php https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/facebook-un-myanmar-geno... With no absolution at all to Beoing for its impressive death count, 24,000 souls, and tens of thousands of rapes and beatings,, in which Facebook's negligence played sufficient role for the UN to specifically call it out, is more than a couple of planes-full, and is why what happens online is in fact as serious and consequential as can be.
a1369209993 7y ago
> It's pretty hard to argue No, it's not; it's just tedious and requires math and statistical/actuarial concepts like quality-adjusted-life-years. (The TL;DR would be that google inflicts significantly less harm per person to vastly larger numbers of persons.) Unpleasant and time consuming is not the same as difficult.

TylerE 7y ago

So do you believe Ford deserves to exist? Because they’ve killed a lot more people through faulty engineeeing than Boeing. The Pinto fuel system alone killed over 900 people

coredog64 7y ago
Gonna need a citation on that. NHTSA says 27, with ~100 lawsuits filed against Ford.

nitrogen 7y ago

I don't think it's particularly useful to compare across industries like this, especially when invoking an "appeal to worse problems" to justify ignoring a problem under discussion.

renewiltord 7y ago
> > > Are any of those companies (except Amazon) even in the same league in terms of negative impact as big tech? > > Boeing's 737 Max debacle killed two plane-fuls of people. It's pretty hard to argue that either Amazon or Google has had negative effects on that magnitude. > I don't think it's particularly useful to compare across industries like this, especially when invoking an "appeal to worse problems" to justify ignoring a problem under discussion. Interesting sequence of comments. Perhaps you placed yours at the wrong level but it certainly doesn't look like good faith at the moment.
- kortilla 7y ago
  Death count is not the only way to measure how bad something is.

pjc50 7y ago

Boeing are a strategic defense capability that happen to make civilian aircraft. The US is going to prop them up to keep Airbus from dominating.

dredmorbius 7y ago

I don't have an example at hand directly involving Google or Amazon (though these may well exist), but if you'll accept a case in which another cavalier tech monopoly has directly contributed to massive loss of life, there is the case of the ongoing Myanmar genocide: In August 2018, a study[86] estimated that more than 24,000+ Rohingya people were killed by the Myanmar military and the local Buddhists since the "clearance operations" started on 25 August 2017. The study[86] also estimated that more than 18,000 Rohingya Muslim women and girls were raped, 116,000 Rohingya were beaten, 36,000 Rohingya were thrown into fire,[86][87][88][89][90][91] burned down and destroyed 354 Rohingya villages in Rakhine state,[92] looted many Rohingya houses,[93] committed widespread gang rapes and other forms of sexual violence against the Rohingya Muslim women and girls.[94][95][96] The military drive also displaced a large number of Rohingya people and made them refugees. According to the United Nations reports, as of January 2018, nearly 690,000 Rohingya people had fled or had been driven out of Rakhine state who then took shelter in the neighboring Bangladesh as refugees.[97] In December, two Reuters journalists who had been covering the Inn Din massacre event were arrested and imprisoned.[97] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_Myanmar#2017–present_Rohingya_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_Myan... The company involved, Facebook: is Facebook really doing all it can to try to halt the spread of violence? Not according to the United Nations’ Fact-Finding Mission on Myanmar, which released its own report on Tuesday looking into the causes of the genocide that has taken place against the Rohingya in that country. Among other recommendations, the UN report says any commercial entity doing business in Myanmar should not “enter into an economic or financial relationship with the security forces,” including the military police, known as the Tatmadaw. https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/facebook-un-myanmar-genocide.php https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/facebook-un-myanmar-geno... With no absolution at all to Beoing for its impressive death count, 24,000 souls, and tens of thousands of rapes and beatings,, in which Facebook's negligence played sufficient role for the UN to specifically call it out, is more than a couple of planes-full, and is why what happens online is in fact as serious and consequential as can be.

a1369209993 7y ago

> It's pretty hard to argue No, it's not; it's just tedious and requires math and statistical/actuarial concepts like quality-adjusted-life-years. (The TL;DR would be that google inflicts significantly less harm per person to vastly larger numbers of persons.) Unpleasant and time consuming is not the same as difficult.