6 ms·

Are any of those companies (except Amazon) even in the same league in terms of negative impact as big tech?

akersten 6y ago
I mean, your choices for flying somewhere are what - Delta or United? Some small regional carriers? What about for internet service - just a single ISP in most areas. Sometimes a monopoly by law, where no one else can lay fiber and they're free to charge as much as they want. Your choices for searching something on the internet, hosting a video, doing email, etc. are innumerable. So you'll have to qualify what you mean by "negative impact" before I can answer that.
- gwright 6y ago
  I don't think transportation is a good analogue because it is very easy to make substitutions. There are lots of ways to get from point A to point B with no single entity blocking your path. How many ways are there to publish a mobile app, for example? I generally describe myself as libertarian but I'm struggling to have a laissez-faire attitude about some aspects of big tech. I think the most frustrating thing is the lack of "due process" in the way that big tech deals with customers. Look at the recent story about the ridiculous review process for Chrome extensions. I could tell similar stories about the app stores.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Both American Airlines and Southwest Airlines would like a word with you. The definition of a monopoly isn't "really big". It's not even "the biggest of four major companies".
- iateanapple 6y ago
  > I mean, your choices for flying somewhere are what - Delta or United? Both delta and united are operating very high capital cost businesses on thin margins. What can we gain by trust busting them? > What about for internet service - just a single ISP in most areas. ISPs can be dealt with effectively at the local level - and they are not as invasive or as politically powerful as the tech giants. I’ve never had my searches for coronavirus related content restricted in any way by my ISP for example. > Your choices for searching something on the internet, hosting a video, doing email, etc. are innumerable. You are ignoring network effects and the advertising monopoly. But maybe that’s a good way to trust bust them? Perhaps YouTube should be made to start showing my dlive streams in the search results?
  - shadowgovt 6y ago
    > I’ve never had my searches for coronavirus related content restricted in any way by my ISP for example. Your ISP isn't a search engine. It's also regulated more like a utility, unlike Google. If your ISP started black-holing IP addresses for reason of the content they carried, there would be Congressional action (if the FCC didn't get there first).
    - iateanapple 6y ago
      That’s exactly right - we have plenty of options for redress against an ISP abusing its power at the local, state, and federal levels.
      - shadowgovt 6y ago
        And on the flip side of the coin, we can change our search engine if we don't like the results it vends.
        iateanapple 6y ago
        Because of network effects that turns out to be a lot weaker protection against much more powerful companies. Edit: Perhaps network effect is the wrong term - but it’s a bit like saying if you don’t like guns don’t buy a gun - that doesn’t really limit the negative impacts from guns...
        shadowgovt 6y ago
        How? What network effect is keeping Bing a poor alternative to Google search?
  - dmitrygr 6y ago
    > Both delta and united are operating very high capital cost businesses on thin margins. You are right, the capital cost of millions of servers worldwide, with security guards, and buildings, and cooling is zero.
nostrademons 6y ago
Boeing's 737 Max debacle killed two plane-fuls of people. It's pretty hard to argue that either Amazon or Google has had negative effects on that magnitude.
- TylerE 6y ago
  So do you believe Ford deserves to exist? Because they’ve killed a lot more people through faulty engineeeing than Boeing. The Pinto fuel system alone killed over 900 people
  - coredog64 6y ago
    Gonna need a citation on that. NHTSA says 27, with ~100 lawsuits filed against Ford.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  I don't think it's particularly useful to compare across industries like this, especially when invoking an "appeal to worse problems" to justify ignoring a problem under discussion.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    > > > Are any of those companies (except Amazon) even in the same league in terms of negative impact as big tech? > > Boeing's 737 Max debacle killed two plane-fuls of people. It's pretty hard to argue that either Amazon or Google has had negative effects on that magnitude. > I don't think it's particularly useful to compare across industries like this, especially when invoking an "appeal to worse problems" to justify ignoring a problem under discussion. Interesting sequence of comments. Perhaps you placed yours at the wrong level but it certainly doesn't look like good faith at the moment.
    - kortilla 6y ago
      Death count is not the only way to measure how bad something is.

I mean, your choices for flying somewhere are what - Delta or United? Some small regional carriers? What about for internet service - just a single ISP in most areas. Sometimes a monopoly by law, where no one else can lay fiber and they're free to charge as much as they want. Your choices for searching something on the internet, hosting a video, doing email, etc. are innumerable. So you'll have to qualify what you mean by "negative impact" before I can answer that.

gwright 6y ago
I don't think transportation is a good analogue because it is very easy to make substitutions. There are lots of ways to get from point A to point B with no single entity blocking your path. How many ways are there to publish a mobile app, for example? I generally describe myself as libertarian but I'm struggling to have a laissez-faire attitude about some aspects of big tech. I think the most frustrating thing is the lack of "due process" in the way that big tech deals with customers. Look at the recent story about the ridiculous review process for Chrome extensions. I could tell similar stories about the app stores.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Both American Airlines and Southwest Airlines would like a word with you. The definition of a monopoly isn't "really big". It's not even "the biggest of four major companies".
iateanapple 6y ago
> I mean, your choices for flying somewhere are what - Delta or United? Both delta and united are operating very high capital cost businesses on thin margins. What can we gain by trust busting them? > What about for internet service - just a single ISP in most areas. ISPs can be dealt with effectively at the local level - and they are not as invasive or as politically powerful as the tech giants. I’ve never had my searches for coronavirus related content restricted in any way by my ISP for example. > Your choices for searching something on the internet, hosting a video, doing email, etc. are innumerable. You are ignoring network effects and the advertising monopoly. But maybe that’s a good way to trust bust them? Perhaps YouTube should be made to start showing my dlive streams in the search results?
- shadowgovt 6y ago
  > I’ve never had my searches for coronavirus related content restricted in any way by my ISP for example. Your ISP isn't a search engine. It's also regulated more like a utility, unlike Google. If your ISP started black-holing IP addresses for reason of the content they carried, there would be Congressional action (if the FCC didn't get there first).
  - iateanapple 6y ago
    That’s exactly right - we have plenty of options for redress against an ISP abusing its power at the local, state, and federal levels.
    - shadowgovt 6y ago
      And on the flip side of the coin, we can change our search engine if we don't like the results it vends.
      - iateanapple 6y ago
        Because of network effects that turns out to be a lot weaker protection against much more powerful companies. Edit: Perhaps network effect is the wrong term - but it’s a bit like saying if you don’t like guns don’t buy a gun - that doesn’t really limit the negative impacts from guns...
        shadowgovt 6y ago
        How? What network effect is keeping Bing a poor alternative to Google search?
- dmitrygr 6y ago
  > Both delta and united are operating very high capital cost businesses on thin margins. You are right, the capital cost of millions of servers worldwide, with security guards, and buildings, and cooling is zero.

nostrademons 6y ago

Boeing's 737 Max debacle killed two plane-fuls of people. It's pretty hard to argue that either Amazon or Google has had negative effects on that magnitude.

TylerE 6y ago
So do you believe Ford deserves to exist? Because they’ve killed a lot more people through faulty engineeeing than Boeing. The Pinto fuel system alone killed over 900 people
- coredog64 6y ago
  Gonna need a citation on that. NHTSA says 27, with ~100 lawsuits filed against Ford.
nitrogen 6y ago
I don't think it's particularly useful to compare across industries like this, especially when invoking an "appeal to worse problems" to justify ignoring a problem under discussion.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  > > > Are any of those companies (except Amazon) even in the same league in terms of negative impact as big tech? > > Boeing's 737 Max debacle killed two plane-fuls of people. It's pretty hard to argue that either Amazon or Google has had negative effects on that magnitude. > I don't think it's particularly useful to compare across industries like this, especially when invoking an "appeal to worse problems" to justify ignoring a problem under discussion. Interesting sequence of comments. Perhaps you placed yours at the wrong level but it certainly doesn't look like good faith at the moment.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    Death count is not the only way to measure how bad something is.