4 ms·

Well that’s a loaded framing. It was pretty well documented that buzzfeed-style news sites were casually promoting the idea that any laid-off worker could just

by SilasX 7y ago

Well that’s a loaded framing. It was pretty well documented that buzzfeed-style news sites were casually promoting the idea that any laid-off worker could just learn to code and make that their new job. Proposing that journalists do the same is the ultimate “proof of concept” that it’s not quite so easy. It’s a mistake to ridicule this turnabout as some kind of anti-media or alt-right thing.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ardy42 7y ago
> Well that’s a loaded framing. It's not just framing. At least some of it originated on 4chan as deliberate harassment: https://twitter.com/chick_in_kiev/status/1088590587731808256 https://twitter.com/chick_in_kiev/status/1088590587731808256 > It was pretty well documented that buzzfeed-style news sites were casually promoting the idea that any laid-off worker could just learn to code and make that their new job. Where? > It’s a mistake to ridicule this turnabout as some kind of anti-media or alt-right thing. It'd only be a turnabout if they were ridiculing specific people who made a claim that "any laid-off worker could just learn to code." But this seems to be generalized harassment against and entire class of people.
- SilasX 7y ago
  >It's not just framing. At least some of it originated on 4chan as deliberate harassment So? If you’re going to judge every argument by its slimiest advocate, then every argument can be dismissed without a thought. >Where? Where to start? It was pretty thoroughly discussed. From a quick search: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code >It'd only be a turnabout if they were ridiculing specific people who made a claim that "any laid-off worker could just learn to code." But this seems to be generalized harassment against and entire class of people. IOW, it's fine to ignore when those nebulous other people at my journal ridicule coal miners with unrealistic expectations, but when it starts to affect me, then you've suddenly crossed an impermissible line. (Edit: sorry for the late update for that last section, selection; they somehow broke test highlighting in iOS 13...)
  - Goronmon 7y ago
    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code I don't see anything examples in there showing journalist telling laid off people to "just learn to code". Unless you believe that writing stories about people switching careers is actually an implied demand that people switch careers, which seems like a strange takeaway.
    - SilasX 7y ago
      Every story has a framing, and this one's an implication of typicality. By the way they were framed, the clear implication was that it's no big deal for anyone to learn to code as a very late second career. It's (also) a mistake to say that, because they didn't explicitly say that view, they weren't promoting it by their choice of framing and emphasis.
      - Goronmon 7y ago
        Do you have an article you feel was that you feel is framing the issue as "its not big deal for anyone to learn to code"?
        SilasX 7y ago
        Sure, the one my opponent on this issue[1] was citing in his/her favor: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/21/tech-industry-coding-kentucky-hillbillies https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/21/tech-industr... Could you really say readers won't go away thinking "hm, guess this seems like a viable post-coal career"? [1] I don't know a better term; can we not make a thing about the label I chose here? Just suggest a better one if you don't like it.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        ardy42 7y ago
        > Could you really say readers won't go away thinking "hm, guess this seems like a viable post-coal career"? I could see readers going away thinking it's a possible post-coal career for some, but that's a far cry from "a clear implication was that it's no big deal for anyone to learn to code as a very late second career." Would you walk away from this article thinking that participating in triathlons is a viable hobby for senior citizens? 'Iron Nun,' 86, forgets sneakers for triathlon — and still finishes race: https://www.today.com/news/iron-nun-86-forgets-sneakers-triathlon-still-finishes-race-t101950 https://www.today.com/news/iron-nun-86-forgets-sneakers-tria...
- iateanapple 7y ago
  > It's not just framing. At least some of it originated on 4chan as deliberate harassment So why “learn to code” and why does it sting journalists so badly? They could have just said “Boo hoo get a new job”. > But this seems to be generalized harassment against and entire class of people. A class of people sure is a sympathetic way to frame progressive left wing journalists.

by SilasX 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ardy42 7y ago

> Well that’s a loaded framing. It's not just framing. At least some of it originated on 4chan as deliberate harassment: https://twitter.com/chick_in_kiev/status/1088590587731808256 https://twitter.com/chick_in_kiev/status/1088590587731808256 > It was pretty well documented that buzzfeed-style news sites were casually promoting the idea that any laid-off worker could just learn to code and make that their new job. Where? > It’s a mistake to ridicule this turnabout as some kind of anti-media or alt-right thing. It'd only be a turnabout if they were ridiculing specific people who made a claim that "any laid-off worker could just learn to code." But this seems to be generalized harassment against and entire class of people.

SilasX 7y ago
>It's not just framing. At least some of it originated on 4chan as deliberate harassment So? If you’re going to judge every argument by its slimiest advocate, then every argument can be dismissed without a thought. >Where? Where to start? It was pretty thoroughly discussed. From a quick search: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code >It'd only be a turnabout if they were ridiculing specific people who made a claim that "any laid-off worker could just learn to code." But this seems to be generalized harassment against and entire class of people. IOW, it's fine to ignore when those nebulous other people at my journal ridicule coal miners with unrealistic expectations, but when it starts to affect me, then you've suddenly crossed an impermissible line. (Edit: sorry for the late update for that last section, selection; they somehow broke test highlighting in iOS 13...)
- Goronmon 7y ago
  https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/learn-to-code I don't see anything examples in there showing journalist telling laid off people to "just learn to code". Unless you believe that writing stories about people switching careers is actually an implied demand that people switch careers, which seems like a strange takeaway.
  - SilasX 7y ago
    Every story has a framing, and this one's an implication of typicality. By the way they were framed, the clear implication was that it's no big deal for anyone to learn to code as a very late second career. It's (also) a mistake to say that, because they didn't explicitly say that view, they weren't promoting it by their choice of framing and emphasis.
    - Goronmon 7y ago
      Do you have an article you feel was that you feel is framing the issue as "its not big deal for anyone to learn to code"?
      - SilasX 7y ago
        Sure, the one my opponent on this issue[1] was citing in his/her favor: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/21/tech-industry-coding-kentucky-hillbillies https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/21/tech-industr... Could you really say readers won't go away thinking "hm, guess this seems like a viable post-coal career"? [1] I don't know a better term; can we not make a thing about the label I chose here? Just suggest a better one if you don't like it.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        ardy42 7y ago
        > Could you really say readers won't go away thinking "hm, guess this seems like a viable post-coal career"? I could see readers going away thinking it's a possible post-coal career for some, but that's a far cry from "a clear implication was that it's no big deal for anyone to learn to code as a very late second career." Would you walk away from this article thinking that participating in triathlons is a viable hobby for senior citizens? 'Iron Nun,' 86, forgets sneakers for triathlon — and still finishes race: https://www.today.com/news/iron-nun-86-forgets-sneakers-triathlon-still-finishes-race-t101950 https://www.today.com/news/iron-nun-86-forgets-sneakers-tria...
iateanapple 7y ago
> It's not just framing. At least some of it originated on 4chan as deliberate harassment So why “learn to code” and why does it sting journalists so badly? They could have just said “Boo hoo get a new job”. > But this seems to be generalized harassment against and entire class of people. A class of people sure is a sympathetic way to frame progressive left wing journalists.