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Canada does have a stake in the matter as Huawei hacked Nortel to steal their IP and then undercut all their business deals causing nortel to go bankrupt to the

Canada does have a stake in the matter as Huawei hacked Nortel to steal their IP and then undercut all their business deals causing nortel to go bankrupt to the detriment of 94,000 employees and every single Canadian that owned just about and stock market fund. It is embarrassing that we haven’t banned Huawei products in Canada yet.

billfruit 6y ago
Yes but that is not related to the case at hand. So if that is used a justification to hold Meng, that is a political reason. Governments in democracies, esp the judicial system is supposed to act to uphold fairness and not national self-interest.
- generatorguy 6y ago
  very good point. The Canadian government should grow a pair and determine if nortel's IP was stolen and then act accordingly.
DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
Nortel was hit by the tech bubble bursting, then engaged in financial fraud.[1][2] Blaming Huawei for Nortel's failure is a pretty massive rewrite of history. 1. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nortel-files-for-bankruptcy-protection https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nortel-files-for-bankruptc... 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSN1936265020080619 https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSN1936265020080619
- generatorguy 6y ago
  tech bubble burst in 2001, Huawei hacking of nortel was 2004-2009. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-against-working-with-huawei-1.1137006 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-ag... https://aragonresearch.com/cyber-war-flashback-remembering-the-huawei-hack-of-cisco-and-nortel/ https://aragonresearch.com/cyber-war-flashback-remembering-t...
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    Not Huawei hacking - alleged Chinese hacking. By that time, Nortel had already been hit by the bursting of the tech bubble - which it never really recovered from - and was in the midst of a scandal in which top executives were accused of financial fraud. Nortel's final downfall occurred during the Great Recession, after years of limping along on life support. People blaming Huawei for Nortel's collapse are really banking on people forgetting the history of Nortel.
    - generatorguy 6y ago
      admittedly I am as biased as they come being a formel Nortel employee. Chinese government hacking and Huawei hacking are one and the same as the end result is Huawei benefitting from the stolen information. Had Nortel not been hacked they wouldn't have had to deal with their competitors ripping off their products and out manoeuvring them in their business deals. The article I linked to cites an ex senior security advisor at Nortel stating that the hacking dated back to 2000, before the tech bubble burst. Instead of being swept under the rug the demise of Nortel due to hacking should be a case study in why computer security needs to be given a lot more attention even if it is at the expense of convenience.
      - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        Hang on a second there. We really have to go back to the history of Nortel, because the claim that Chinese hacking brought down Nortel really does not hold up. Nortel expanded massively during the dot-com bubble, and went on a nearly $20 billion acquisition spree that caused it to lose money every quarter for years, even while its stock price was driven up by unrealistic expectations. Then the dot-com bubble burst, at which point these expectations were tempered and people began worrying about Nortel's unprofitability. The stock crashed, raising capital became difficult, demand for Nortel's products (and all telecommunications hardware) plummeted, and the company had to lay off 20% of its workers. At this time, Huawei was a tiny player outside of China. Nortel's major competitor was Cisco. In 2003, for the first time in years, Nortel finally posted a quarterly profit, but then came under investigation from the SEC over suspicions that it was fudging its numbers (specifically, the accusation was that executives shifted revenue in time in order to meet targets that earned them bonuses). The SEC charged top Nortel executives with fraud, and the case was eventually settled, but Nortel had to change out its top management. Nortel was also sued by shareholders, to whom it had to pay billions of dollars in a settlement. There were layoffs and downsizing throughout this entire period. To look at that history, and then to claim that hacking that might have helped one of Nortel's several competitors (and not even the largest, by a long shot) is the reason for Nortel's demise just seems completely out of left field to me. To be honest, it sounds like a batter yelling at the ump about being distracted by a fan after he strikes out 0-3.

billfruit 6y ago

Yes but that is not related to the case at hand. So if that is used a justification to hold Meng, that is a political reason. Governments in democracies, esp the judicial system is supposed to act to uphold fairness and not national self-interest.

generatorguy 6y ago
very good point. The Canadian government should grow a pair and determine if nortel's IP was stolen and then act accordingly.

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago

Nortel was hit by the tech bubble bursting, then engaged in financial fraud.[1][2] Blaming Huawei for Nortel's failure is a pretty massive rewrite of history. 1. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nortel-files-for-bankruptcy-protection https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nortel-files-for-bankruptc... 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSN1936265020080619 https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSN1936265020080619

generatorguy 6y ago
tech bubble burst in 2001, Huawei hacking of nortel was 2004-2009. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-against-working-with-huawei-1.1137006 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-ag... https://aragonresearch.com/cyber-war-flashback-remembering-the-huawei-hack-of-cisco-and-nortel/ https://aragonresearch.com/cyber-war-flashback-remembering-t...
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  Not Huawei hacking - alleged Chinese hacking. By that time, Nortel had already been hit by the bursting of the tech bubble - which it never really recovered from - and was in the midst of a scandal in which top executives were accused of financial fraud. Nortel's final downfall occurred during the Great Recession, after years of limping along on life support. People blaming Huawei for Nortel's collapse are really banking on people forgetting the history of Nortel.
  - generatorguy 6y ago
    admittedly I am as biased as they come being a formel Nortel employee. Chinese government hacking and Huawei hacking are one and the same as the end result is Huawei benefitting from the stolen information. Had Nortel not been hacked they wouldn't have had to deal with their competitors ripping off their products and out manoeuvring them in their business deals. The article I linked to cites an ex senior security advisor at Nortel stating that the hacking dated back to 2000, before the tech bubble burst. Instead of being swept under the rug the demise of Nortel due to hacking should be a case study in why computer security needs to be given a lot more attention even if it is at the expense of convenience.
    - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
      Hang on a second there. We really have to go back to the history of Nortel, because the claim that Chinese hacking brought down Nortel really does not hold up. Nortel expanded massively during the dot-com bubble, and went on a nearly $20 billion acquisition spree that caused it to lose money every quarter for years, even while its stock price was driven up by unrealistic expectations. Then the dot-com bubble burst, at which point these expectations were tempered and people began worrying about Nortel's unprofitability. The stock crashed, raising capital became difficult, demand for Nortel's products (and all telecommunications hardware) plummeted, and the company had to lay off 20% of its workers. At this time, Huawei was a tiny player outside of China. Nortel's major competitor was Cisco. In 2003, for the first time in years, Nortel finally posted a quarterly profit, but then came under investigation from the SEC over suspicions that it was fudging its numbers (specifically, the accusation was that executives shifted revenue in time in order to meet targets that earned them bonuses). The SEC charged top Nortel executives with fraud, and the case was eventually settled, but Nortel had to change out its top management. Nortel was also sued by shareholders, to whom it had to pay billions of dollars in a settlement. There were layoffs and downsizing throughout this entire period. To look at that history, and then to claim that hacking that might have helped one of Nortel's several competitors (and not even the largest, by a long shot) is the reason for Nortel's demise just seems completely out of left field to me. To be honest, it sounds like a batter yelling at the ump about being distracted by a fan after he strikes out 0-3.