6 ms·

Tech majors to join hands against patent suits

7 points by paulsb 18y ago

noonespecial 18y ago
Wow. I smell opportunity here! The patent system is broken enough now that you can basically patent the same vague "method" over and over again. Now you can sell each one too Google. Profit! Yes. The above was sarcasm. I'm a little disappointed by this. This would seem to just encourage the production of more bogus patents. If they were really serious, they'd put all of those millions into patent reforms. If you look at the list of participants, many have not been model citizens when it comes to patents. This smells more like another power-play than any attempt at reform, or even "defense" as they claim.
prakash 18y ago
Sounds like a cartel doesn't it? And, what's to stop this alliance from using patents to stifle innovation?
LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
Disgusting. Imagine how much better off we'd be if there wasn't a need to spend that kind of money to preemptively ward off lawsuits from patent leeches. If the big boys are this worried about the current patent situation, how many smaller companies never even get off the ground due to it? Is the possibility of a patent lawsuit a factor in the decision of which startups to extend YC offers to?
DenisM 18y ago
There ought to be a little-guy version. Like this: Anyone can signup for nominal fee ($100), every member donates all their patents to the pool and gets rights to the pool. Once you have rights to the pool you can force a cross-licensing agreement with any other real company (won't work with patent trolls though). Those who don't want to donate their stuff can pay really big money to get stuff from it, which will go towards maintaining the organization. This may not work well on small scale, but if it were to reach large scale it will become very attractive to join and will put an end to the patent system, for good.
- hugh 18y ago
  Patents vary hugely in value. The vast majority turn out to be worth almost nothing, while a few are worth billions. I'm pretty sure if you had this it would just accumulate all the worthless patents, while people and companies who owned the valuable ones would have no interest in joining.
  - cwp 18y ago
    Actually, that doesn't matter very much. The point of the pool is not to get access to patented technology that you wouldn't otherwise be able to use. It's to be able to defend yourself against patent lawsuits. If you're sued, you can counter sue for infringing some stupid worthless patent in the pool, because any real implementation of anything infringes on some patent. With enough patents in the pool, counter-suit becomes a viable defense. Not also that this is why it won't work against patent trolls - they don't actually do anything of substance, and therefore aren't vulnerable to counter-suit.
    - DenisM 18y ago
      Right, and as big dogs lose profit in patent system, they will lobby to can the whole thing completely. Thus patent trolls will also lose in the end.
gaius 18y ago
"are believed to have a joined a group calling itself the Allied Security Trust" Awesome! This sounds like it would make a great FPS :-)
cwp 18y ago
What we need is a Godel patent: a patent on the business method of patent-trolling. That would help in two ways. First you could go after all the trolls with patent-infringement lawsuits. Second, it would serve as an easy-to-understand example of how screwed-up the system is in the first place, and stimulate the discussion needed to introduce real reform.
anamax 18y ago
Suppose that someone invents a better way to rank search results. What are the acceptable ways for such a person to make money from that invention? (Most of the respondents to this message seem to believe that patenting such a method or licensing such a patent is unacceptable. If you think that licensing is acceptable but lawsuits aren't, please explain why anyone would license if patent holders couldn't sue.)

7 points by paulsb 18y ago

Wow. I smell opportunity here! The patent system is broken enough now that you can basically patent the same vague "method" over and over again. Now you can sell each one too Google. Profit! Yes. The above was sarcasm. I'm a little disappointed by this. This would seem to just encourage the production of more bogus patents. If they were really serious, they'd put all of those millions into patent reforms. If you look at the list of participants, many have not been model citizens when it comes to patents. This smells more like another power-play than any attempt at reform, or even "defense" as they claim.

prakash 18y ago

Sounds like a cartel doesn't it? And, what's to stop this alliance from using patents to stifle innovation?

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago

Disgusting. Imagine how much better off we'd be if there wasn't a need to spend that kind of money to preemptively ward off lawsuits from patent leeches. If the big boys are this worried about the current patent situation, how many smaller companies never even get off the ground due to it? Is the possibility of a patent lawsuit a factor in the decision of which startups to extend YC offers to?

DenisM 18y ago

There ought to be a little-guy version. Like this: Anyone can signup for nominal fee ($100), every member donates all their patents to the pool and gets rights to the pool. Once you have rights to the pool you can force a cross-licensing agreement with any other real company (won't work with patent trolls though). Those who don't want to donate their stuff can pay really big money to get stuff from it, which will go towards maintaining the organization. This may not work well on small scale, but if it were to reach large scale it will become very attractive to join and will put an end to the patent system, for good.

hugh 18y ago
Patents vary hugely in value. The vast majority turn out to be worth almost nothing, while a few are worth billions. I'm pretty sure if you had this it would just accumulate all the worthless patents, while people and companies who owned the valuable ones would have no interest in joining.
- cwp 18y ago
  Actually, that doesn't matter very much. The point of the pool is not to get access to patented technology that you wouldn't otherwise be able to use. It's to be able to defend yourself against patent lawsuits. If you're sued, you can counter sue for infringing some stupid worthless patent in the pool, because any real implementation of anything infringes on some patent. With enough patents in the pool, counter-suit becomes a viable defense. Not also that this is why it won't work against patent trolls - they don't actually do anything of substance, and therefore aren't vulnerable to counter-suit.
  - DenisM 18y ago
    Right, and as big dogs lose profit in patent system, they will lobby to can the whole thing completely. Thus patent trolls will also lose in the end.

gaius 18y ago

"are believed to have a joined a group calling itself the Allied Security Trust" Awesome! This sounds like it would make a great FPS :-)

cwp 18y ago

What we need is a Godel patent: a patent on the business method of patent-trolling. That would help in two ways. First you could go after all the trolls with patent-infringement lawsuits. Second, it would serve as an easy-to-understand example of how screwed-up the system is in the first place, and stimulate the discussion needed to introduce real reform.

anamax 18y ago

Suppose that someone invents a better way to rank search results. What are the acceptable ways for such a person to make money from that invention? (Most of the respondents to this message seem to believe that patenting such a method or licensing such a patent is unacceptable. If you think that licensing is acceptable but lawsuits aren't, please explain why anyone would license if patent holders couldn't sue.)