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Or when I click the 'reply' button to post this very comment, which does result in a jarring full-page refresh — and one that instantly robs me of the fuller co

Or when I click the 'reply' button to post this very comment, which does result in a jarring full-page refresh — and one that instantly robs me of the fuller context in which I'm replying.

zozbot234 6y ago
But this gives you the option of opening the reply link in a background tab (via click-and-hold or middle-click, depending on your UI). Can't do that in a JavaScript SPA without re-hydrating tens of megabytes of JS for each tab you load.
- rich_harris 6y ago
  > without re-hydrating tens of megabytes of JS for each tab you load You'll be taken more seriously if you don't engage in meaningless hyberbole. You could recreate the open-the-reply-page-in-a-new-tab behaviour of HN (with the context-preserving JS enhancement for the non-middle-clickers) with a few kilobytes of JS if you're doing it right.
  - quantummkv 6y ago
    > You could recreate the open-the-reply-page-in-a-new-tab behaviour of HN That is the crux of the problem. Why is there this obsessive need to recreate what is already available? > with a few kilobytes of JS if you're doing it right. As experienced with PHP developers in the dark ages, that never works. It will be a choice between easy and incorrect or difficult and right. The majority will never do it right for various reasons. And the web will loose in the eyes of the users.
    - Vinnl 6y ago
      > That is the crux of the problem. Why is there this obsessive need to recreate what is already available? For exactly the reasons stated: to both support in-line reply without the jarring page refresh, and to be able to open the reply form in a background tab. And I think what Rich wants/is working on is making it both easy and right, because indeed, otherwise it will never happen.
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    It's funny to think about it that way given how much we've pushed back on them over the years, but a pop-up window might actually provide the best experience (bonus points if it was local to the tab). I just shift-clicked reply, and it works quite well. I might add a rule to my sway config to make the "Add comment" windows floating :) In the end, everyone is different and has different needs. That's why I like standards: everyone can set their user experience as they prefer it (or pick a web browser that chooses good defaults for them).
- robertoandred 6y ago
  Ridiculous hyperbole.
tashoecraft 6y ago
Agreed, I’ve often opened another tab, found the context of the comment I’m replying to and hopped back and forth. HN can be an echo chamber of JavaScript is the devil, websites should only serve html.
- nathcd 6y ago
  > HN can be an echo chamber of JavaScript is the devil, websites should only serve html. It's a reaction to the reality of the web, which is that Javascript is commonly used when it's entirely unnecessary, much more of it is often used than is necessary, and it's often used to abuse webpage visitors. Most on HN don't object to ajax-y bits of JS that make a page more pleasant to use.
  - hombre_fatal 6y ago
    Then instead of an emotional/frustrated reaction, those people should temper their reaction with the acknowledgement of trade-offs.
dralley 6y ago
You can do that without going full SPA. See 'old reddit' vs 'new reddit', with the former being user friendly while remaining minimal and performant.

Or when I click the 'reply' button to post this very comment, which does result in a jarring full-page refresh — and one that instantly robs me of the fuller context in which I'm replying.

zozbot234 6y ago

But this gives you the option of opening the reply link in a background tab (via click-and-hold or middle-click, depending on your UI). Can't do that in a JavaScript SPA without re-hydrating tens of megabytes of JS for each tab you load.

rich_harris 6y ago
> without re-hydrating tens of megabytes of JS for each tab you load You'll be taken more seriously if you don't engage in meaningless hyberbole. You could recreate the open-the-reply-page-in-a-new-tab behaviour of HN (with the context-preserving JS enhancement for the non-middle-clickers) with a few kilobytes of JS if you're doing it right.
- quantummkv 6y ago
  > You could recreate the open-the-reply-page-in-a-new-tab behaviour of HN That is the crux of the problem. Why is there this obsessive need to recreate what is already available? > with a few kilobytes of JS if you're doing it right. As experienced with PHP developers in the dark ages, that never works. It will be a choice between easy and incorrect or difficult and right. The majority will never do it right for various reasons. And the web will loose in the eyes of the users.
  - Vinnl 6y ago
    > That is the crux of the problem. Why is there this obsessive need to recreate what is already available? For exactly the reasons stated: to both support in-line reply without the jarring page refresh, and to be able to open the reply form in a background tab. And I think what Rich wants/is working on is making it both easy and right, because indeed, otherwise it will never happen.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  It's funny to think about it that way given how much we've pushed back on them over the years, but a pop-up window might actually provide the best experience (bonus points if it was local to the tab). I just shift-clicked reply, and it works quite well. I might add a rule to my sway config to make the "Add comment" windows floating :) In the end, everyone is different and has different needs. That's why I like standards: everyone can set their user experience as they prefer it (or pick a web browser that chooses good defaults for them).
robertoandred 6y ago
Ridiculous hyperbole.

tashoecraft 6y ago

Agreed, I’ve often opened another tab, found the context of the comment I’m replying to and hopped back and forth. HN can be an echo chamber of JavaScript is the devil, websites should only serve html.

nathcd 6y ago
> HN can be an echo chamber of JavaScript is the devil, websites should only serve html. It's a reaction to the reality of the web, which is that Javascript is commonly used when it's entirely unnecessary, much more of it is often used than is necessary, and it's often used to abuse webpage visitors. Most on HN don't object to ajax-y bits of JS that make a page more pleasant to use.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  Then instead of an emotional/frustrated reaction, those people should temper their reaction with the acknowledgement of trade-offs.

dralley 6y ago

You can do that without going full SPA. See 'old reddit' vs 'new reddit', with the former being user friendly while remaining minimal and performant.