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Don't know why you're downvoted given that you're correct. The end result of this is to ensure that China develops their own semi conductor industry. Besides th

Don't know why you're downvoted given that you're correct. The end result of this is to ensure that China develops their own semi conductor industry. Besides the short term loss of sales, in the long term new companies will emerge that compete with the American semi conductor industry. It's just a dumb move all around.

micromacro 6y ago
unpleasant truth
ericmay 6y ago
> The end result of this is to ensure that China develops their own semi conductor industry Seems to me that's happening either way and probably always was. Why wouldn't they?
- rjzzleep 6y ago
  It actually was fast tracked by the trade war. Government mandated domestic development of certain things after the US made it clear to China that they're not trustworthy trading partner. Not that China is, but kind of besides the point. Similar to how the google ban fast tracked Huawei working on google free systems e.g. buying third party map services like TomTom. Bad for Google good for competition. Basically the US has lost its standing thanks to Trumps bully diplomacy[1]. “Some if not all regional countries may harbour concerns about the security ramifications of using Huawei, but there are real pragmatic considerations,” said Collin Koh Swee Lean, a research fellow at the S Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore. “Cost-wise in particular, Chinese offers for infrastructure development present more attractive propositions.” https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3012820/huawei-ban-why-asian-countries-are-shunning-trumps https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/301282...
  - ericmay 6y ago
    > It actually was fast tracked by the trade war. Government mandated domestic development of certain things after the US made it clear to China that they're not trustworthy trading partner. Not that China is, but kind of besides the point. I'm not sure why that's besides the point? The U.S. for years worked to invest in China and build them as a great trading partner and the CCP continued to just steal trade secrets and do everything in their power to undermine the U.S.. And it's probably true that this development was fast tracked by the trade war... but so what? This was coming since the CCP didn't want to be a partner with the West, so why wait around to cut the ties? It's going to happen either way, why not happen on your terms? W.r.t Trump's "bully" diplomacy - I mean, playing nice certainly didn't work. We don't need to and shouldn't be trading partners with China so long as they're acting against U.S. and western interests in general. The U.S. tried to engage and endured years of malevolent activity by the CCP only to have the actions worsen over time. So... I'm not really sure what the advantage to the U.S. is besides having a big market. Ban Chinese products in the U.S. and China can ban U.S. products. Whatever. > Cost-wise in particular, Chinese offers for infrastructure development present more attractive propositions Sure. For now. And if you only want to look at cost. Maybe you want to look at other factors, like maybe you're Vietnam and concerned about the Chinese ramming your fishing boats? [1] [1] https://www.news.com.au/world/south-china-sea-tensions-at-new-high-after-vietnamese-boat-rammed-and-sunk/news-story/10188f3d7c1d7336bcaffafd742defab https://www.news.com.au/world/south-china-sea-tensions-at-ne...
    - Udik 6y ago
      Let's put it this way: China is a huge country, that has been very well governed in the past 30 years. Its people are proud, smart, ingenious, and they're working a lot for a lot less than their western counterparts. Given this, and given it lasts, it was inevitable for China to overtake the US in technology, economic power and importance on the world scene. Sooner or later, even playing by all the rules. Was the US prepared to accept that? What do you think happens when the world's only technological, economic and military superpower is about to be overtaken by a competitor? Did you think the US was going to lose its supremacy without trying everything it could to prevent it? Of course not. And then, what kind of actions do you think it would take to prevent it? For example, the US could start a very aggressive trade war with China. They could try to justify it in various ways, for example by saying that China is a risk to the world, that its technology is tainted by some issue (maybe it could be used for spying). They could try to isolate China, advising all its partners not to trade with it. And so on. And this is exactly what we're seeing. It would have happened anyway, independently from China's behaviour. Because the only variable is how close they are to threatening the US's power. And they're close.
- Tehdasi 6y ago
  There's less of point to developing industries if other countries will sell you the product of the industries for a competitive price.
JohnTClark 6y ago
They will develop their own industry but without stealing R&D from the USA.

micromacro 6y ago

unpleasant truth

ericmay 6y ago

> The end result of this is to ensure that China develops their own semi conductor industry Seems to me that's happening either way and probably always was. Why wouldn't they?

rjzzleep 6y ago
It actually was fast tracked by the trade war. Government mandated domestic development of certain things after the US made it clear to China that they're not trustworthy trading partner. Not that China is, but kind of besides the point. Similar to how the google ban fast tracked Huawei working on google free systems e.g. buying third party map services like TomTom. Bad for Google good for competition. Basically the US has lost its standing thanks to Trumps bully diplomacy[1]. “Some if not all regional countries may harbour concerns about the security ramifications of using Huawei, but there are real pragmatic considerations,” said Collin Koh Swee Lean, a research fellow at the S Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore. “Cost-wise in particular, Chinese offers for infrastructure development present more attractive propositions.” https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3012820/huawei-ban-why-asian-countries-are-shunning-trumps https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/301282...
- ericmay 6y ago
  > It actually was fast tracked by the trade war. Government mandated domestic development of certain things after the US made it clear to China that they're not trustworthy trading partner. Not that China is, but kind of besides the point. I'm not sure why that's besides the point? The U.S. for years worked to invest in China and build them as a great trading partner and the CCP continued to just steal trade secrets and do everything in their power to undermine the U.S.. And it's probably true that this development was fast tracked by the trade war... but so what? This was coming since the CCP didn't want to be a partner with the West, so why wait around to cut the ties? It's going to happen either way, why not happen on your terms? W.r.t Trump's "bully" diplomacy - I mean, playing nice certainly didn't work. We don't need to and shouldn't be trading partners with China so long as they're acting against U.S. and western interests in general. The U.S. tried to engage and endured years of malevolent activity by the CCP only to have the actions worsen over time. So... I'm not really sure what the advantage to the U.S. is besides having a big market. Ban Chinese products in the U.S. and China can ban U.S. products. Whatever. > Cost-wise in particular, Chinese offers for infrastructure development present more attractive propositions Sure. For now. And if you only want to look at cost. Maybe you want to look at other factors, like maybe you're Vietnam and concerned about the Chinese ramming your fishing boats? [1] [1] https://www.news.com.au/world/south-china-sea-tensions-at-new-high-after-vietnamese-boat-rammed-and-sunk/news-story/10188f3d7c1d7336bcaffafd742defab https://www.news.com.au/world/south-china-sea-tensions-at-ne...
  - Udik 6y ago
    Let's put it this way: China is a huge country, that has been very well governed in the past 30 years. Its people are proud, smart, ingenious, and they're working a lot for a lot less than their western counterparts. Given this, and given it lasts, it was inevitable for China to overtake the US in technology, economic power and importance on the world scene. Sooner or later, even playing by all the rules. Was the US prepared to accept that? What do you think happens when the world's only technological, economic and military superpower is about to be overtaken by a competitor? Did you think the US was going to lose its supremacy without trying everything it could to prevent it? Of course not. And then, what kind of actions do you think it would take to prevent it? For example, the US could start a very aggressive trade war with China. They could try to justify it in various ways, for example by saying that China is a risk to the world, that its technology is tainted by some issue (maybe it could be used for spying). They could try to isolate China, advising all its partners not to trade with it. And so on. And this is exactly what we're seeing. It would have happened anyway, independently from China's behaviour. Because the only variable is how close they are to threatening the US's power. And they're close.
Tehdasi 6y ago
There's less of point to developing industries if other countries will sell you the product of the industries for a competitive price.

JohnTClark 6y ago

They will develop their own industry but without stealing R&D from the USA.