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It’s pretty hilarious that the grounds for the block is that China will use the chips to spy on people, given that the United States is certainly doing that alr

It’s pretty hilarious that the grounds for the block is that China will use the chips to spy on people, given that the United States is certainly doing that already.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jaywalk 6y ago
Yeah, US spying and Chinese spying are totally the same and used for the same purposes. I don't like spying period, but to try and equate what the US does to what China does is simply ludicrous.
- shmel 6y ago
  It might feel different depending where you live. If one lives in Europe, I don't see why US or Chinese spying should be perceived differently.
  - isatty 6y ago
    Maybe because there are human rights in the US?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - logicchains 6y ago
      The US judicial system doesn't protect the human rights of anyone who's not in America. Just ask the thousands of brown people killed as collateral damage from drone strikes without any chance of a trial in court.
    - Mindwipe 6y ago
      America's human rights laws don't apply to non-US citizens outside of the US's landmass. America has been exceptionally clear that US intelligence and immigration agencies consider non-Americans to be fair game for hacking, non-judicial imprisonment, torture et al. So if I'm not American I might acknowledge that America treats it's own citizens slightly better than China treats theirs from a human rights perspective, but as someone who's British neither nation has a stellar track record of actions that effect me and my country personally or give me any rights protection.
    - zadokshi 6y ago
      No, there are no ‘human rights’ in America. There are only ‘American rights’. Non US citizens are not protected by the Constitution. Do not have free speech, etc...
      - logfromblammo 6y ago
        Noncitizens are protected by the Constitution. It's just that those who are blithely violating the rights of noncitizens simply don't care about obeying the laws themselves. A document without maintainers is dead.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        Those who are blithely violating the rights of noncitizens are also doing so for citizens (most obviously, those suspected of being noncitizens due to skin color, use of foreign language, etc., but it doesn't stop there.)
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      Not only doesn't apply to non-Americans, but sometimes it doesn't even apply to American citizens, (Chelsea Manning was tortured in a U.S. military prison).
      - AsyncAwait 6y ago
        Downvoting doesn't change the facts [1], but keep your blinders on. 1 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-mannin...
    - tzs 6y ago
      Why does the US having an arguably better domestic human rights record than China make it preferable for a European to be spied on by the US government rather than the Chinese government? As an American I'd rather be spied on by China than my own government because China spying on me won't discover anything that they can use against me themselves. That's not so for my own government. I'd expect this is similar in most countries. Your own government is the biggest danger because your own government has much more power over you than foreign governments and much more interest in you. The biggest threat for an average civilian from a foreign government spying on them is that the foreign government might share that information with their their own government. Since many European governments have close intelligence sharing arrangements with the US and do not have such arrangements with China, I'd expect that for the average European it would be better to be spied on by China than the US.
  - jtdev 6y ago
    Because China is a communist, authoritarian nation known for human rights violation and use of technology to oppress people...?
- logicchains 6y ago
  Yeah, China uses their technological advantage to do horrible things. Like invading Iraq and overthrowing the leaders, leaving the country in chaos and leading to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Or the time they invaded Afghanistan and overthrew their leaders, leaving the country in chaos. Or the mass surveillance of their citizens. Or they harsh punishments they mete out to whistle-blowers who expose wrongdoing, forcing them to free to countries like Russia if they don't want to lose their freedom.
- zadokshi 6y ago
  Americans will disagree and not understand why non Americans have this opinion.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > to try and equate what the US does to what China does is simply ludicrous This is such a West-centric viewpoint. The fact is that they're only only different in where they're the most horrible. China is worse on the domestic front and the U.S. bullies more on the foreign front. Then there's soft power, where Hollywood makes you think the U.S. actually cares about democracy and human rights, (while supporting the likes of Saudi Arabia at the same time), which are quite powerful tools of propaganda. The 90% of civilians targeted by U.S. drones would probably strongly disagree with your assertion. Is just that there's not a strong voice speaking for them on TV, where's there's plenty on China.
isatty 6y ago
So what? Just because the US does something too does not mean that they’ve to be ok with others doing the same. You may think the world works like that, but it don’t.

It’s pretty hilarious that the grounds for the block is that China will use the chips to spy on people, given that the United States is certainly doing that already.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jaywalk 6y ago

Yeah, US spying and Chinese spying are totally the same and used for the same purposes. I don't like spying period, but to try and equate what the US does to what China does is simply ludicrous.

shmel 6y ago
It might feel different depending where you live. If one lives in Europe, I don't see why US or Chinese spying should be perceived differently.
- isatty 6y ago
  Maybe because there are human rights in the US?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - logicchains 6y ago
    The US judicial system doesn't protect the human rights of anyone who's not in America. Just ask the thousands of brown people killed as collateral damage from drone strikes without any chance of a trial in court.
  - Mindwipe 6y ago
    America's human rights laws don't apply to non-US citizens outside of the US's landmass. America has been exceptionally clear that US intelligence and immigration agencies consider non-Americans to be fair game for hacking, non-judicial imprisonment, torture et al. So if I'm not American I might acknowledge that America treats it's own citizens slightly better than China treats theirs from a human rights perspective, but as someone who's British neither nation has a stellar track record of actions that effect me and my country personally or give me any rights protection.
  - zadokshi 6y ago
    No, there are no ‘human rights’ in America. There are only ‘American rights’. Non US citizens are not protected by the Constitution. Do not have free speech, etc...
    - logfromblammo 6y ago
      Noncitizens are protected by the Constitution. It's just that those who are blithely violating the rights of noncitizens simply don't care about obeying the laws themselves. A document without maintainers is dead.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        Those who are blithely violating the rights of noncitizens are also doing so for citizens (most obviously, those suspected of being noncitizens due to skin color, use of foreign language, etc., but it doesn't stop there.)
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    Not only doesn't apply to non-Americans, but sometimes it doesn't even apply to American citizens, (Chelsea Manning was tortured in a U.S. military prison).
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      Downvoting doesn't change the facts [1], but keep your blinders on. 1 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-mannin...
  - tzs 6y ago
    Why does the US having an arguably better domestic human rights record than China make it preferable for a European to be spied on by the US government rather than the Chinese government? As an American I'd rather be spied on by China than my own government because China spying on me won't discover anything that they can use against me themselves. That's not so for my own government. I'd expect this is similar in most countries. Your own government is the biggest danger because your own government has much more power over you than foreign governments and much more interest in you. The biggest threat for an average civilian from a foreign government spying on them is that the foreign government might share that information with their their own government. Since many European governments have close intelligence sharing arrangements with the US and do not have such arrangements with China, I'd expect that for the average European it would be better to be spied on by China than the US.
- jtdev 6y ago
  Because China is a communist, authoritarian nation known for human rights violation and use of technology to oppress people...?
logicchains 6y ago
Yeah, China uses their technological advantage to do horrible things. Like invading Iraq and overthrowing the leaders, leaving the country in chaos and leading to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Or the time they invaded Afghanistan and overthrew their leaders, leaving the country in chaos. Or the mass surveillance of their citizens. Or they harsh punishments they mete out to whistle-blowers who expose wrongdoing, forcing them to free to countries like Russia if they don't want to lose their freedom.
zadokshi 6y ago
Americans will disagree and not understand why non Americans have this opinion.
AsyncAwait 6y ago
> to try and equate what the US does to what China does is simply ludicrous This is such a West-centric viewpoint. The fact is that they're only only different in where they're the most horrible. China is worse on the domestic front and the U.S. bullies more on the foreign front. Then there's soft power, where Hollywood makes you think the U.S. actually cares about democracy and human rights, (while supporting the likes of Saudi Arabia at the same time), which are quite powerful tools of propaganda. The 90% of civilians targeted by U.S. drones would probably strongly disagree with your assertion. Is just that there's not a strong voice speaking for them on TV, where's there's plenty on China.

isatty 6y ago

So what? Just because the US does something too does not mean that they’ve to be ok with others doing the same. You may think the world works like that, but it don’t.