8 ms·

No Country for Young Men: China's testosterone problem and the effects of the one-child policy

29 points by robg 18y ago

ulf 18y ago
i think that is only one of many points in the nearer future of countries like China or India that will have a lot of repercussions...
mynameishere 18y ago
Back when I subscribed to Forbes, I remember an editorial suggesting how wonderful China's gender problem was...think of all the female-hungry Chinese engineers we can import into the USA! No shit, Forbes magazine said that. It was then that I realized the elite would gladly sell my organs on a penny profit. At any rate, expect a steady flow of paid-for brides moving into China. Those billions of dollars sitting in China's central banks can only go one place, and we only have so many things they want to buy.
- giardini 18y ago
  Brides? Why so much trouble? Japan will solve your problem! Less emotionally volatile than a bride and submissive to your every desire, we present the Tanjansu female concubot. Available in 20 different skin tones and with interchangeable head, torso and legs, you can mix and match to satisfy your daily kinky whim. And Tanjansu can cook! Modules are available for 16 varieties of Chinese, Japanese and McDonald's cuisine. Help avoid testosterone-induced social strife. Ensure domestic tranquility and do your part to bring China forward, to enhance Chino-Japanese relations and to lower your libido today. Only 110,000 yuan (basic model).
  - jrockway 18y ago
    Yeah, hilarious... but people still use each other for "reproduction" or even, gasp, conversation! It may surprise you to hear this, but some people actually want to have a family instead of spending all day fucking a robot.
    - giardini 18y ago
      Reproduction is necessary for the species but not for the individual. Most men (and we are mostly men here, are we not?) don't usually seek hours in conversation with women. Such I deem a sign that one is unsucessful in mating. And most men do not wish to be constrained to fucking any one particular being be it robot or human: http://nymag.com/relationships/sex/47055/ http://nymag.com/relationships/sex/47055/
- eugenejen 18y ago
  Do you mean porns? I mean seriously because that was my thought before. Unfortunately there is no piracy control in china for digital download. Even Chinese government tries to suppress it but it just can't be stopped. But for most Chinese men, they only like East Asians. So most porns there are made from Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Of course some of them now import some girls from Ukraine for brides when they make big money. But that's rare. Most of them thought American females are too large for them to handle.
- daniel-cussen 18y ago
  On the other hand, these engineers will desist from science at a later age than if they could easily marry.
biohacker42 18y ago
The deep and strong custom of boys over girls is fascinating. In eastern Europe and a lot of other places, girls are the ones who are valuable, for obvious reasons. And by obvious I am talking in Darwinian terms. So the only way I can think that a custom like that can survive is if people have no way to control the sex of children. But now suddenly they do. It is hard to explain to people from the new world just how powerful culture can be. Old world tribal customs culture, not Mozart and Voltaire culture. You can fight and break laws, but do not ever break customs! I've heard people say that a Chinese proverb about raising girls is something about watering someone else's garden. I worry things like that will go away only if the ancient customs' back is truly broken. Let the ratio of girls to boys go completely out of hand. Then sit back and watch an old stupid custom die a painful death.
- eugenejen 18y ago
  Is this the reason why I think girls from East Europe are more attractive? It is interesting to look at this from sexual selection point of view. On the other hand. I really wish the old tradition in china goes away. There was a time in the 20th century when both Communists and Nationalists in China pushed forward gender egalitarian agenda. But it only reached urban area and the people in country sides are still deeply rooted in old tradition (but at the same time, we all know the people in country side have to favor male off springs for agriculture purpose) So we are watching a very big experiment in society that may last for 100 years.
  - biohacker42 18y ago
    I credit the greater genetic diversity (when compared to West Europeans) of East Europeans for out good looks.
    - eugenejen 18y ago
      I am curious. Do you have any citation about this? I know Russians are pretty mixed in both Y Chromosome and mitochondrial DNA due to history. But how about others? Also in this http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,559284,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,559284,00..... It seems even Scandinavians are mixed heritage.
chaostheory 18y ago
if mainland Chinese society made a shift to be more gender equal (politically and economically), this wouldn't be (or stay) a problem... This is a ticking time bomb, both there and in India
- eugenejen 18y ago
  Arab World also has a similar problem. And anger from young men there already exploded and made a landmark in NYC. (I lived in LES in NYC in 9/11/2001 and breathed for a month of air with asbestos and smoke.) So we've already known what is possible to be done by angry young men. -- edit -- Why this is considered offensive? Will anyone tell me?
  - hugh 18y ago
    It's possible you're being modded down for your poor spelling and grammar. I've modded you back up to 1.
- nailer 18y ago
  It's a perfect solution. Have 40 million extra men? Tired of people declaring independence? Solve two in one: start a war with, or Kosovo-style-people-flood Taiwan and Tibet.
pg 18y ago
How many children do the 10 most powerful political leaders in China have? I'd be curious, if anyone knows.
- mrdorian 18y ago
  they all have more than one child
- bilbo0s 18y ago
  China is run by what seems to me to be effectively a 'board of directors', these men are too old to have been affected by those policies. When I say old, I'm talking OLD too. We think John McCain is old. By Chinese standards he would be just getting to the point where they MIGHT let him have a say in who the next president is. Seriously, these guys are so old it is RIDICULOUS. Their presidential elections work something like this: -Small number of, seriously old, think in the 90 year old range, guys get together and decide they've had it with the 70 year old president. China's economy is only growing at 10% a year, or something ridiculous like that. Their stock exchanges only offer up surges in the 40-50% range per year, and GOSH DARNIT!! 'How long can the shareholders be reasonably expected to tolerate such pitiful returns?' They lament. 'China's future is at stake!!!' 'That means our CHILDREN are at stake!!!' 'Why they may even have to clean their own toilets!!!' 'Won't someone think of the CHILDREN!!!' -To address this crisis in the portfolios of the Chinese people . . . er . . . I mean . . . crisis in the leadership of the Chinese people. They have found some spritely, dynamic, new young blood, by young I mean 60, and they say he is the new guy in charge. -All the leaders of the communist party, being obedient mentees of these old guys, sing the new guy's praises, elect him president, and the old guy goes home. (Only not really . . . see he'll BE one of those old guys now, so he'll ALWAYS have some influence) Bit of an oversimplification, but not much. When I first studied this I thought, 'man this sounds JUST like the process of a board of directors'. But if the rest of the world wants to call it a political system, who am I to question? Fine, it's a political system. An interesting test might be to try to get China to do what we want another way. Let's forget about armies, and navies, and Taiwan, and democracy, and demonstrations. Let's try causing a blip in their quarterly results. I'd imagine the speed with which change would come would make our heads spin. That's just my theory though.
msluyter 18y ago
What's so scary about this is that the quickest and surest way to eliminate a surplus of young men is war.
- jsn 18y ago
  Or, one possible way to prepare for some big future war is to facilitate a surplus of young single men. And that should apply equally well to different kinds of "hot" and "cold" war.
- eugenejen 18y ago
  It is not so scary in history of China. Chinese waged wars/feuds against each other in 90% of the recorded history. China always have surplus male population to be wasted. But wars before were contained in regional provinces or mainland. Considering now China owns nuclear war heads and ICBMs. Then any one who is crazy enough will be a threat to U.S.A. and neighbors of China. Especially U.S.A. was considered as a potential enemy by them. It is the same thing like U.S.A didn't need to care who those Wahhabi jihadists before. But now they project their anger on U.S. and have means to create collateral damage in U.S.A. Then it becomes nuisances to U.S. (P.S. I am a half Chinese and half Taiwanese in U.S.A.)
omouse 18y ago
"In a round-up last year, Beijing cops seized 3,400 guns and knives used in war games" WTF! Knives?! These guys are hardcore.
jobeirne 18y ago
Yet another fine testament to government regulation!
parenthesis 18y ago
This is interesting data in this connection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio
rahulgarg 18y ago
My answer was different : Rapture.

29 points by robg 18y ago

ulf 18y ago

i think that is only one of many points in the nearer future of countries like China or India that will have a lot of repercussions...

mynameishere 18y ago

Back when I subscribed to Forbes, I remember an editorial suggesting how wonderful China's gender problem was...think of all the female-hungry Chinese engineers we can import into the USA! No shit, Forbes magazine said that. It was then that I realized the elite would gladly sell my organs on a penny profit. At any rate, expect a steady flow of paid-for brides moving into China. Those billions of dollars sitting in China's central banks can only go one place, and we only have so many things they want to buy.

giardini 18y ago
Brides? Why so much trouble? Japan will solve your problem! Less emotionally volatile than a bride and submissive to your every desire, we present the Tanjansu female concubot. Available in 20 different skin tones and with interchangeable head, torso and legs, you can mix and match to satisfy your daily kinky whim. And Tanjansu can cook! Modules are available for 16 varieties of Chinese, Japanese and McDonald's cuisine. Help avoid testosterone-induced social strife. Ensure domestic tranquility and do your part to bring China forward, to enhance Chino-Japanese relations and to lower your libido today. Only 110,000 yuan (basic model).
- jrockway 18y ago
  Yeah, hilarious... but people still use each other for "reproduction" or even, gasp, conversation! It may surprise you to hear this, but some people actually want to have a family instead of spending all day fucking a robot.
  - giardini 18y ago
    Reproduction is necessary for the species but not for the individual. Most men (and we are mostly men here, are we not?) don't usually seek hours in conversation with women. Such I deem a sign that one is unsucessful in mating. And most men do not wish to be constrained to fucking any one particular being be it robot or human: http://nymag.com/relationships/sex/47055/ http://nymag.com/relationships/sex/47055/
eugenejen 18y ago
Do you mean porns? I mean seriously because that was my thought before. Unfortunately there is no piracy control in china for digital download. Even Chinese government tries to suppress it but it just can't be stopped. But for most Chinese men, they only like East Asians. So most porns there are made from Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Of course some of them now import some girls from Ukraine for brides when they make big money. But that's rare. Most of them thought American females are too large for them to handle.
daniel-cussen 18y ago
On the other hand, these engineers will desist from science at a later age than if they could easily marry.

biohacker42 18y ago

The deep and strong custom of boys over girls is fascinating. In eastern Europe and a lot of other places, girls are the ones who are valuable, for obvious reasons. And by obvious I am talking in Darwinian terms. So the only way I can think that a custom like that can survive is if people have no way to control the sex of children. But now suddenly they do. It is hard to explain to people from the new world just how powerful culture can be. Old world tribal customs culture, not Mozart and Voltaire culture. You can fight and break laws, but do not ever break customs! I've heard people say that a Chinese proverb about raising girls is something about watering someone else's garden. I worry things like that will go away only if the ancient customs' back is truly broken. Let the ratio of girls to boys go completely out of hand. Then sit back and watch an old stupid custom die a painful death.

eugenejen 18y ago
Is this the reason why I think girls from East Europe are more attractive? It is interesting to look at this from sexual selection point of view. On the other hand. I really wish the old tradition in china goes away. There was a time in the 20th century when both Communists and Nationalists in China pushed forward gender egalitarian agenda. But it only reached urban area and the people in country sides are still deeply rooted in old tradition (but at the same time, we all know the people in country side have to favor male off springs for agriculture purpose) So we are watching a very big experiment in society that may last for 100 years.
- biohacker42 18y ago
  I credit the greater genetic diversity (when compared to West Europeans) of East Europeans for out good looks.
  - eugenejen 18y ago
    I am curious. Do you have any citation about this? I know Russians are pretty mixed in both Y Chromosome and mitochondrial DNA due to history. But how about others? Also in this http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,559284,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,559284,00..... It seems even Scandinavians are mixed heritage.

chaostheory 18y ago

if mainland Chinese society made a shift to be more gender equal (politically and economically), this wouldn't be (or stay) a problem... This is a ticking time bomb, both there and in India

eugenejen 18y ago
Arab World also has a similar problem. And anger from young men there already exploded and made a landmark in NYC. (I lived in LES in NYC in 9/11/2001 and breathed for a month of air with asbestos and smoke.) So we've already known what is possible to be done by angry young men. -- edit -- Why this is considered offensive? Will anyone tell me?
- hugh 18y ago
  It's possible you're being modded down for your poor spelling and grammar. I've modded you back up to 1.
nailer 18y ago
It's a perfect solution. Have 40 million extra men? Tired of people declaring independence? Solve two in one: start a war with, or Kosovo-style-people-flood Taiwan and Tibet.

pg 18y ago

How many children do the 10 most powerful political leaders in China have? I'd be curious, if anyone knows.

mrdorian 18y ago
they all have more than one child
bilbo0s 18y ago
China is run by what seems to me to be effectively a 'board of directors', these men are too old to have been affected by those policies. When I say old, I'm talking OLD too. We think John McCain is old. By Chinese standards he would be just getting to the point where they MIGHT let him have a say in who the next president is. Seriously, these guys are so old it is RIDICULOUS. Their presidential elections work something like this: -Small number of, seriously old, think in the 90 year old range, guys get together and decide they've had it with the 70 year old president. China's economy is only growing at 10% a year, or something ridiculous like that. Their stock exchanges only offer up surges in the 40-50% range per year, and GOSH DARNIT!! 'How long can the shareholders be reasonably expected to tolerate such pitiful returns?' They lament. 'China's future is at stake!!!' 'That means our CHILDREN are at stake!!!' 'Why they may even have to clean their own toilets!!!' 'Won't someone think of the CHILDREN!!!' -To address this crisis in the portfolios of the Chinese people . . . er . . . I mean . . . crisis in the leadership of the Chinese people. They have found some spritely, dynamic, new young blood, by young I mean 60, and they say he is the new guy in charge. -All the leaders of the communist party, being obedient mentees of these old guys, sing the new guy's praises, elect him president, and the old guy goes home. (Only not really . . . see he'll BE one of those old guys now, so he'll ALWAYS have some influence) Bit of an oversimplification, but not much. When I first studied this I thought, 'man this sounds JUST like the process of a board of directors'. But if the rest of the world wants to call it a political system, who am I to question? Fine, it's a political system. An interesting test might be to try to get China to do what we want another way. Let's forget about armies, and navies, and Taiwan, and democracy, and demonstrations. Let's try causing a blip in their quarterly results. I'd imagine the speed with which change would come would make our heads spin. That's just my theory though.

msluyter 18y ago

What's so scary about this is that the quickest and surest way to eliminate a surplus of young men is war.

jsn 18y ago
Or, one possible way to prepare for some big future war is to facilitate a surplus of young single men. And that should apply equally well to different kinds of "hot" and "cold" war.
eugenejen 18y ago
It is not so scary in history of China. Chinese waged wars/feuds against each other in 90% of the recorded history. China always have surplus male population to be wasted. But wars before were contained in regional provinces or mainland. Considering now China owns nuclear war heads and ICBMs. Then any one who is crazy enough will be a threat to U.S.A. and neighbors of China. Especially U.S.A. was considered as a potential enemy by them. It is the same thing like U.S.A didn't need to care who those Wahhabi jihadists before. But now they project their anger on U.S. and have means to create collateral damage in U.S.A. Then it becomes nuisances to U.S. (P.S. I am a half Chinese and half Taiwanese in U.S.A.)

omouse 18y ago

"In a round-up last year, Beijing cops seized 3,400 guns and knives used in war games" WTF! Knives?! These guys are hardcore.

jobeirne 18y ago

Yet another fine testament to government regulation!

parenthesis 18y ago

This is interesting data in this connection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio

rahulgarg 18y ago

My answer was different : Rapture.