4 ms·

anyone else ever think to themselves that there's no point in being honest when it's seemingly so easy to get ahead by being dishonest? like what is even the po

anyone else ever think to themselves that there's no point in being honest when it's seemingly so easy to get ahead by being dishonest? like what is even the point of working hard and playing by all of the rules when people like this can just manipulate their way to success?

saq7 6y ago
Honesty is the best policy in a society that has rule of law. People who are able to manipulate their way to success have skills and perspective that allow them to be successful at manipulation. They would be successful if they chose an honest path too. To answer your question directly- it is harder than it looks
- throwlaplace 6y ago
  i'm successful now. i'd be more successful if i cheated/lied. why shouldn't i?
  - jmeister 6y ago
    You’re happily married. You’d be even happier if you cheated on your spouse(without getting caught). Why shouldn’t you?
    - throwlaplace 6y ago
      indeed why shouldn't i?
      - yowlingcat 6y ago
        To the GP's rhetorical point, if you /really/ are wondering why you shouldn't, then you aren't actually happily married. To your original point, no, there would be no point to being honest if being dishonest made it easier to get ahead. But it would be very naive to presume that being dishonest makes it easier to get ahead. You need to have cunning to get ahead by being dishonest, and one false move can screw up a long period of well executed dishonesty. Are you personally equipped to pull that off? Better than those who've been practicing their whole lives? And beyond that, the psychological and sociological ramifications of it will catch up with you too. Who do you think you'll tend to be surrounded by if you take such a strategy? What kind of life experiences will you never get to experience as a result of that? You don't have to look very far to get answers to that. It's not pretty. For some people, pure wealth or fame is worth any degree of dishonesty, by which I mean the negative effects of it simply do not cause them difficulty. But I think the far more likely case is that our societal discourse minimizes the difficulty it does cause. When peace decays and order crumbles, it doesn't make warfare (literal or figurative) any less expensive or unpleasant. It just makes it harder to avoid.
badrabbit 6y ago
Because it is right. Why would you need any other reason, isn't that enough? Do you believe being honest is the correct and right way? I think that's the only reason you need, just like you can't have a reason to justify doing what you believe is wrong. Of course these are goals I would aim for, I simply mean that if I fail to live up to these standards then I am failing,not that I claim to have succeeded.
- throwlaplace 6y ago
  Right and wrong are the rules we play by that "they" set so that we police ourselves
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    I guess then it depends on what you think is right and wrong. I personally have a very clear definition of what I consider to be a legitimate authoriry and under which clear and precise definitions of right,wrong ,justice and morality exist. Maybe you should explore what authority model you subscribe to. There is always an authority,even if that is yourself. If you consider yourself as the final authority over all things then I suggest checking your ego a bit. My perspective: As in any program or system of programs,the author has original and final authority over all things authored. Even if you leave absolute origin as a variable,it is clear that both natural and man made systems which have legitimate authorities. But in the case of your question, I say ask and answer deeper questions. Who or What has authority over interpersonal interactions at the social , relationship,national,global and universal level. An authority that depends on your opinion of it's legitimacy is not legitimate.

saq7 6y ago

Honesty is the best policy in a society that has rule of law. People who are able to manipulate their way to success have skills and perspective that allow them to be successful at manipulation. They would be successful if they chose an honest path too. To answer your question directly- it is harder than it looks

throwlaplace 6y ago
i'm successful now. i'd be more successful if i cheated/lied. why shouldn't i?
- jmeister 6y ago
  You’re happily married. You’d be even happier if you cheated on your spouse(without getting caught). Why shouldn’t you?
  - throwlaplace 6y ago
    indeed why shouldn't i?
    - yowlingcat 6y ago
      To the GP's rhetorical point, if you /really/ are wondering why you shouldn't, then you aren't actually happily married. To your original point, no, there would be no point to being honest if being dishonest made it easier to get ahead. But it would be very naive to presume that being dishonest makes it easier to get ahead. You need to have cunning to get ahead by being dishonest, and one false move can screw up a long period of well executed dishonesty. Are you personally equipped to pull that off? Better than those who've been practicing their whole lives? And beyond that, the psychological and sociological ramifications of it will catch up with you too. Who do you think you'll tend to be surrounded by if you take such a strategy? What kind of life experiences will you never get to experience as a result of that? You don't have to look very far to get answers to that. It's not pretty. For some people, pure wealth or fame is worth any degree of dishonesty, by which I mean the negative effects of it simply do not cause them difficulty. But I think the far more likely case is that our societal discourse minimizes the difficulty it does cause. When peace decays and order crumbles, it doesn't make warfare (literal or figurative) any less expensive or unpleasant. It just makes it harder to avoid.

badrabbit 6y ago

Because it is right. Why would you need any other reason, isn't that enough? Do you believe being honest is the correct and right way? I think that's the only reason you need, just like you can't have a reason to justify doing what you believe is wrong. Of course these are goals I would aim for, I simply mean that if I fail to live up to these standards then I am failing,not that I claim to have succeeded.

throwlaplace 6y ago
Right and wrong are the rules we play by that "they" set so that we police ourselves
- badrabbit 6y ago
  I guess then it depends on what you think is right and wrong. I personally have a very clear definition of what I consider to be a legitimate authoriry and under which clear and precise definitions of right,wrong ,justice and morality exist. Maybe you should explore what authority model you subscribe to. There is always an authority,even if that is yourself. If you consider yourself as the final authority over all things then I suggest checking your ego a bit. My perspective: As in any program or system of programs,the author has original and final authority over all things authored. Even if you leave absolute origin as a variable,it is clear that both natural and man made systems which have legitimate authorities. But in the case of your question, I say ask and answer deeper questions. Who or What has authority over interpersonal interactions at the social , relationship,national,global and universal level. An authority that depends on your opinion of it's legitimacy is not legitimate.