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Renewables are just a technology totally dependent on fossil fuels from birth to burial. The book by Charles Hall , Energy Return on Investment, opened my eyes

Renewables are just a technology totally dependent on fossil fuels from birth to burial. The book by Charles Hall , Energy Return on Investment, opened my eyes to the true nature of renewables . Once fossil fuels are gone, renewables will soon follow.

pfdietz 6y ago
The EROEI of renewables is good and getting better. There is nothing in their manufacture that would be impossible without fossil fuels.
- anesmike 6y ago
  Think hard about that; huge trucks for mining, huge trucks for transport, huge amount of energy to separate component minerals, the actual energy for manufacture of these renewables, up to this point I don't see renewables at any stage of this process. Diesel fueled trucks to deliver said renewable technologies to their place of use. Oh, their is one worker who drives a tesla ...... Oh at end of their life requires fossil fuels for dismantlement , fossil fuels to transport device to some recycling plant, fossil fuels for the energy to process this dead technology, oh there is one guy there that drives a tesla. I use to believe that renewables would help; but alas when you really look at this technology with a total suspension of bias you reach the same conclusion.
  - pfdietz 6y ago
    Nothing you listed there requires fossil fuels. If you think those activities require fossil fuels, you are basically saying industrial society is impossible after fossil fuels run out.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      That problem with that guy is he hasn't done any math to back any of that up. When you run the numbers for say tractors, trains and mining trucks it pencils out just fine.
      - anesmike 6y ago
        Confirmation bias is not good; one must look at other sources to firm up you belief and if you find other info contradicts your bias you must update your beliefs. For me ,Charles Hall's book Energy Return on Investment totally changed my mindset by reminding me thermodynamics from undergrad 46 years ago(oh shit!!1)
        Gibbon1 6y ago
        You need to dust off your pencil then. I took three semesters of thermo as part of my mechanical engineering program. I ran the numbers for heavy vehicles and it all works.
    - anesmike 6y ago
      Simply put, there is not a battery big enough for these trucks, the trucks are too massive ,the battery would be massive,it unfortunately will not work, just the laws of the universe.
      - pfdietz 6y ago
        Except that's totally wrong. Mines are already electrifying! https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a30873539/electric-mining-truck/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a... Tell me, why do you think this vehicle cannot be made even larger? Are you thinking that batteries for such vehicles have to consist of larger cells?
    - anesmike 6y ago
      Thats right.
  - epistasis 6y ago
    Those huge truck use electric motors, because electric motors have better torque. The diesel is just there to provide an energy source. There are already several haul trucks that use batteries instead of diesel. And some of them generate more electricity than they use, because they haul large loads downhill and regenerative breaking means that for the truck, its duty cycle is energy positive! It's important to ask: why do you think thinks like large trucks can not be electrified? What assumptions do you hold that say they could never be powered by carbon free electricity?

pfdietz 6y ago

The EROEI of renewables is good and getting better. There is nothing in their manufacture that would be impossible without fossil fuels.

anesmike 6y ago
Think hard about that; huge trucks for mining, huge trucks for transport, huge amount of energy to separate component minerals, the actual energy for manufacture of these renewables, up to this point I don't see renewables at any stage of this process. Diesel fueled trucks to deliver said renewable technologies to their place of use. Oh, their is one worker who drives a tesla ...... Oh at end of their life requires fossil fuels for dismantlement , fossil fuels to transport device to some recycling plant, fossil fuels for the energy to process this dead technology, oh there is one guy there that drives a tesla. I use to believe that renewables would help; but alas when you really look at this technology with a total suspension of bias you reach the same conclusion.
- pfdietz 6y ago
  Nothing you listed there requires fossil fuels. If you think those activities require fossil fuels, you are basically saying industrial society is impossible after fossil fuels run out.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    That problem with that guy is he hasn't done any math to back any of that up. When you run the numbers for say tractors, trains and mining trucks it pencils out just fine.
    - anesmike 6y ago
      Confirmation bias is not good; one must look at other sources to firm up you belief and if you find other info contradicts your bias you must update your beliefs. For me ,Charles Hall's book Energy Return on Investment totally changed my mindset by reminding me thermodynamics from undergrad 46 years ago(oh shit!!1)
      - Gibbon1 6y ago
        You need to dust off your pencil then. I took three semesters of thermo as part of my mechanical engineering program. I ran the numbers for heavy vehicles and it all works.
  - anesmike 6y ago
    Simply put, there is not a battery big enough for these trucks, the trucks are too massive ,the battery would be massive,it unfortunately will not work, just the laws of the universe.
    - pfdietz 6y ago
      Except that's totally wrong. Mines are already electrifying! https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a30873539/electric-mining-truck/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a... Tell me, why do you think this vehicle cannot be made even larger? Are you thinking that batteries for such vehicles have to consist of larger cells?
  - anesmike 6y ago
    Thats right.
- epistasis 6y ago
  Those huge truck use electric motors, because electric motors have better torque. The diesel is just there to provide an energy source. There are already several haul trucks that use batteries instead of diesel. And some of them generate more electricity than they use, because they haul large loads downhill and regenerative breaking means that for the truck, its duty cycle is energy positive! It's important to ask: why do you think thinks like large trucks can not be electrified? What assumptions do you hold that say they could never be powered by carbon free electricity?