8 ms·

Who would have guessed so many people on HN are against individual freedom? There is absolutely zero ethically or morally wrong with someone selling sex, or buy

Who would have guessed so many people on HN are against individual freedom? There is absolutely zero ethically or morally wrong with someone selling sex, or buying sex from someone else. Or maybe we should ban pop music stars from revealing too much skin in their music videos? Where do you draw the line between "This is immoral!" and "Wow, what a successful person!" Just ignore it if you don't like it. No one puts a gun to your head to pay someone for sex - so don't point your guns at them for doing so.

MuffinFlavored 6y ago
> There is absolutely zero ethically or morally wrong with someone selling sex, or buying sex from someone else. That's an insanely modern/left view with zero consideration to basically all historically socially accepted conservative views of the past. It's trendy to support sex workers online in 2020 but in the 2000s I'm pretty sure 95% of white suburbia wouldn't have wanted their daughters hanging out with sex workers.
- seibelj 6y ago
  Can you explain what is morally wrong with buying or selling sex? I’m not “trendy”, it’s a deeply held philosophical belief about individual freedom.
  - MuffinFlavored 6y ago
    I don't feel like the average person who says "I'm ok with females selling sex" would actually be ok + proud of their mother / daughter / sister / grandma / cousin if they sold sex for a living.
    - seibelj 6y ago
      It doesn't matter what anyone feels "proud" about. I wouldn't be proud of my daughter being a tax accountant, I would rather she was a porn star (I am 100% serious - porn stars add value to society and make people happy). We live in a free society, and if someone wants to be filmed naked, or paid to have sex, that's their decision to make regardless if it makes you feel icky. I hope you have spent your whole life abstaining from pornography, because you must feel a great deal of anger at them and shame for what they did.
      - klmadfejno 6y ago
        I would feel icky if all of my female colleagues who got laid off just now were economically compelled to have sex with people they didn't want to have sex with to pay for rent, food, and other debts. Lots of people have pretty shit deals. It's a free society, but they work as meat packers or facebook explicit content moderators. Not that free. I vastly prefer a system with switching costs (like needing to move somewhere where its legal) than one which puts a social burden on girls to do this when times are tough. "Porn star" sounds sex-positive, lucrative, and happy. Getting fucked by a landlord is a lot more grim.
        viklove 6y ago
        > compelled to have sex with people they didn't want to have sex with So we're not talking about OnlyFans anymore are we? Also what about all the women who enjoy doing online sex work? Are you telling them they shouldn't be allowed to work a job they enjoy?
    - elliekelly 6y ago
      I would be. And of my father/son/brother/grandpa too.
      - MuffinFlavored 6y ago
        Do you think you are better/more open-minded than somebody who would not be ok + would look down upon a member of their family performing sex work? The topic of sex work morality acceptance has a very "me versus them" vibe to it, much like left versus right in the US. Is there any middle ground of "you can do whatever you want, I am not infringing on your rights, but I personally disagree" that doesn't land the speaker into "time to get cancelled by the leftist mob for being a bigot" territory?
        elliekelly 6y ago
        Can I answer your first question with a question: do you think you are better than somebody who performs sex work? As for middle ground I understand that some people might “personally disagree” and I get that. There are a lot of things in the world that I personally disagree with, too. Like marriage, for example. I wouldn’t be caught dead getting married. But I understand that some people want to and it makes some people happy. And even though I choose not to participate I still support my friends and family who do. The difference, in my mind, is “X is not right for me” vs “X is not right”. One is about personal opinion and the other is about forcing that opinion onto others who might not share it.
    - heromal 6y ago
      Because they wouldn't. These idiot redditors just like these kind of leftist circlejerks
- krapp 6y ago
  >That's an insanely modern/left view with zero consideration to basically all historically socially accepted conservative views of the past. No, not every culture in history has been saddled with the Judeo-Christian prejudice against women and their sexuality. Also, historically socially accepted "conservative" views include slavery, rule by divine right, child labor and trial by combat. A view having been held and taken for granted for a long time doesn't make it correct.
  - MuffinFlavored 6y ago
    > A view having been held and taken for granted for a long time doesn't make it correct. The leftist mob of blue Twitter checkmarks has been cancelling people since about... 2012? It's trendy to be pro sex work, anti-corporation in 2020. The majority of people commenting online about how "pro sex work" they are do not have a sex worker in their life by a longshot. It's all theory/keyboard warrior/armchair activist stuff.
    - jachee 6y ago
      And who are you to gatekeep what causes people can and cannot support without a direct association? Also, you completely discredited yourself from any sort of worthy debate with "leftist mob".
      - heromal 6y ago
        Calm down neckbeard, back to your Javascript
- anigbrowl 6y ago
  basically all historically socially accepted conservative views If you need more than 3 qualifiers it's probably BS. You could just post why you think sex work is bad, but your numerous posts on this topic all seem to rely on invoking social sanctions or paranoia, ie making people feel bad about it without saying why you think they should. Seems kinda like your personal hangup.
  - MuffinFlavored 6y ago
    I've got no personal hangups with the topic whatsoever. I think it is very fun to poke at the reality of what people online claim. Lots of trendy Miamians will claim it's empowering if somebody is a sex worker, then talk sh*t about them behind their back saying what a hoe they are. I'm trying to gauge the pulse of what HackerNews thinks.
    - anigbrowl 6y ago
      Yeah yeah, every troll says they're 'conducting a social experiment'.
- dontbenebby 6y ago
  >That's an insanely modern/left view... It's trendy to support sex workers online in 2020 but in the 2000s I'm pretty sure 95% of white suburbia wouldn't have wanted their daughters hanging out with sex workers. The Cato Institute has been pretty consistently pro legalization. Are they "leftist"? This really shouldn't be a left/right issue. As a matter of public health, criminalization and measures like SESTA/FOSTA just lead to more dead sex workers https://www.engadget.com/2018-04-27-suicide-violence-and-going-underground-fosta-sesta.html https://www.engadget.com/2018-04-27-suicide-violence-and-goi...
  - MuffinFlavored 6y ago
    I agree that on the surface it isn't / shouldn't be "left versus right" but the viewpoint differences seem to align almost 1:1 with "selling yourself sexually is good to with me" (left) and something more conservative (right)

MuffinFlavored 6y ago

> There is absolutely zero ethically or morally wrong with someone selling sex, or buying sex from someone else. That's an insanely modern/left view with zero consideration to basically all historically socially accepted conservative views of the past. It's trendy to support sex workers online in 2020 but in the 2000s I'm pretty sure 95% of white suburbia wouldn't have wanted their daughters hanging out with sex workers.

seibelj 6y ago
Can you explain what is morally wrong with buying or selling sex? I’m not “trendy”, it’s a deeply held philosophical belief about individual freedom.
- MuffinFlavored 6y ago
  I don't feel like the average person who says "I'm ok with females selling sex" would actually be ok + proud of their mother / daughter / sister / grandma / cousin if they sold sex for a living.
  - seibelj 6y ago
    It doesn't matter what anyone feels "proud" about. I wouldn't be proud of my daughter being a tax accountant, I would rather she was a porn star (I am 100% serious - porn stars add value to society and make people happy). We live in a free society, and if someone wants to be filmed naked, or paid to have sex, that's their decision to make regardless if it makes you feel icky. I hope you have spent your whole life abstaining from pornography, because you must feel a great deal of anger at them and shame for what they did.
    - klmadfejno 6y ago
      I would feel icky if all of my female colleagues who got laid off just now were economically compelled to have sex with people they didn't want to have sex with to pay for rent, food, and other debts. Lots of people have pretty shit deals. It's a free society, but they work as meat packers or facebook explicit content moderators. Not that free. I vastly prefer a system with switching costs (like needing to move somewhere where its legal) than one which puts a social burden on girls to do this when times are tough. "Porn star" sounds sex-positive, lucrative, and happy. Getting fucked by a landlord is a lot more grim.
      - viklove 6y ago
        > compelled to have sex with people they didn't want to have sex with So we're not talking about OnlyFans anymore are we? Also what about all the women who enjoy doing online sex work? Are you telling them they shouldn't be allowed to work a job they enjoy?
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    I would be. And of my father/son/brother/grandpa too.
    - MuffinFlavored 6y ago
      Do you think you are better/more open-minded than somebody who would not be ok + would look down upon a member of their family performing sex work? The topic of sex work morality acceptance has a very "me versus them" vibe to it, much like left versus right in the US. Is there any middle ground of "you can do whatever you want, I am not infringing on your rights, but I personally disagree" that doesn't land the speaker into "time to get cancelled by the leftist mob for being a bigot" territory?
      - elliekelly 6y ago
        Can I answer your first question with a question: do you think you are better than somebody who performs sex work? As for middle ground I understand that some people might “personally disagree” and I get that. There are a lot of things in the world that I personally disagree with, too. Like marriage, for example. I wouldn’t be caught dead getting married. But I understand that some people want to and it makes some people happy. And even though I choose not to participate I still support my friends and family who do. The difference, in my mind, is “X is not right for me” vs “X is not right”. One is about personal opinion and the other is about forcing that opinion onto others who might not share it.
  - heromal 6y ago
    Because they wouldn't. These idiot redditors just like these kind of leftist circlejerks
krapp 6y ago
>That's an insanely modern/left view with zero consideration to basically all historically socially accepted conservative views of the past. No, not every culture in history has been saddled with the Judeo-Christian prejudice against women and their sexuality. Also, historically socially accepted "conservative" views include slavery, rule by divine right, child labor and trial by combat. A view having been held and taken for granted for a long time doesn't make it correct.
- MuffinFlavored 6y ago
  > A view having been held and taken for granted for a long time doesn't make it correct. The leftist mob of blue Twitter checkmarks has been cancelling people since about... 2012? It's trendy to be pro sex work, anti-corporation in 2020. The majority of people commenting online about how "pro sex work" they are do not have a sex worker in their life by a longshot. It's all theory/keyboard warrior/armchair activist stuff.
  - jachee 6y ago
    And who are you to gatekeep what causes people can and cannot support without a direct association? Also, you completely discredited yourself from any sort of worthy debate with "leftist mob".
    - heromal 6y ago
      Calm down neckbeard, back to your Javascript
anigbrowl 6y ago
basically all historically socially accepted conservative views If you need more than 3 qualifiers it's probably BS. You could just post why you think sex work is bad, but your numerous posts on this topic all seem to rely on invoking social sanctions or paranoia, ie making people feel bad about it without saying why you think they should. Seems kinda like your personal hangup.
- MuffinFlavored 6y ago
  I've got no personal hangups with the topic whatsoever. I think it is very fun to poke at the reality of what people online claim. Lots of trendy Miamians will claim it's empowering if somebody is a sex worker, then talk sh*t about them behind their back saying what a hoe they are. I'm trying to gauge the pulse of what HackerNews thinks.
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    Yeah yeah, every troll says they're 'conducting a social experiment'.
dontbenebby 6y ago
>That's an insanely modern/left view... It's trendy to support sex workers online in 2020 but in the 2000s I'm pretty sure 95% of white suburbia wouldn't have wanted their daughters hanging out with sex workers. The Cato Institute has been pretty consistently pro legalization. Are they "leftist"? This really shouldn't be a left/right issue. As a matter of public health, criminalization and measures like SESTA/FOSTA just lead to more dead sex workers https://www.engadget.com/2018-04-27-suicide-violence-and-going-underground-fosta-sesta.html https://www.engadget.com/2018-04-27-suicide-violence-and-goi...
- MuffinFlavored 6y ago
  I agree that on the surface it isn't / shouldn't be "left versus right" but the viewpoint differences seem to align almost 1:1 with "selling yourself sexually is good to with me" (left) and something more conservative (right)