3 ms·

Men face the same difficulties you describe when starting a career and getting paid for the value they provide. Simply because 1% of men do not face that due to

Men face the same difficulties you describe when starting a career and getting paid for the value they provide. Simply because 1% of men do not face that due to networking or luck does not mean that the vast majority are in some privileged position.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
To be succinct, the main issue I have with HN is that when I try to network and say things like "Email me about that. Let's discuss that issue privately." it typically turns into roughly "Honey, can I get your phone number? Can we have a coffee date (for romantic reasons and not business reasons)?" I strongly suspect this is not a huge issue for men.
- edmundsauto 6y ago
  My experience has led me to believe (as a not famous, not attractive, not well connected man) that I would not get an email back in the first place. I have no idea whether or not that is problematic, but that's my perception: that I wouldn't even get the opportunity to prove myself.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    On the upside, that at least saves the time and energy of trying to figure out how to reply to someone in a way that moves things in the right direction and wondering if you are just crazy and reading in problem behavior when there is none and so forth. I was strung along for months by someone who was married and not telling me that until he finally told me one day that he was married, his marriage was in the toilet and he needed "a friend." I wouldn't have fallen for that if it was clearer to me what actual successful networking looks like. When two hetero men network, saying "Hey, let's have coffee" is a clear and unambiguously platonic proposal. This is not true in my case and it leaves me with serious challenges in figuring out just how on earth you do this. It's only very recently that I have figured out how to get someone to discuss my work with me because those initial inquiries are so often ambiguous. Networking looks not dissimilar to dating in the initial phases and that means I waste a lot of time trying to make a business connection that will never happen because business is not his goal and will never be on the table, no matter how I handle things.
    - thatcat 6y ago
      In my experience successful networking happens when you work on some minor project together successfully.
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        Thank you.
    - edmundsauto 6y ago
      That's a terrible experience, and one of the many reasons networking is hard. I suppose my perspective is that the grass is always greener. I have always assumed that I'd prefer the opportunity to pitch at a higher rate, versus a better qualified opportunity at a much lower rate. But that's probably a fallacy. Thank you for sharing your experience. I still don't feel bad for attractive people, since the outcome measurements clearly show it's advantageous, but the experience isn't something I'd considered prior to your comment.
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        I suppose my perspective is that the grass is always greener. Sometimes the grass is greener because of all the manure in the yard. I try hard to "count my blessings" and to figure out what's good about my situation. But the reality is I'm frequently broke, often to the point of going hungry, so I very much need to solve some questions concerning "How on Earth do you make money instead of being treated like slave labor?" (Because I get feedback that people benefit tremendously from information I share and things I do and they "value" it, they just don't want to pay me for it.)

DoreenMichele 6y ago

To be succinct, the main issue I have with HN is that when I try to network and say things like "Email me about that. Let's discuss that issue privately." it typically turns into roughly "Honey, can I get your phone number? Can we have a coffee date (for romantic reasons and not business reasons)?" I strongly suspect this is not a huge issue for men.

edmundsauto 6y ago
My experience has led me to believe (as a not famous, not attractive, not well connected man) that I would not get an email back in the first place. I have no idea whether or not that is problematic, but that's my perception: that I wouldn't even get the opportunity to prove myself.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  On the upside, that at least saves the time and energy of trying to figure out how to reply to someone in a way that moves things in the right direction and wondering if you are just crazy and reading in problem behavior when there is none and so forth. I was strung along for months by someone who was married and not telling me that until he finally told me one day that he was married, his marriage was in the toilet and he needed "a friend." I wouldn't have fallen for that if it was clearer to me what actual successful networking looks like. When two hetero men network, saying "Hey, let's have coffee" is a clear and unambiguously platonic proposal. This is not true in my case and it leaves me with serious challenges in figuring out just how on earth you do this. It's only very recently that I have figured out how to get someone to discuss my work with me because those initial inquiries are so often ambiguous. Networking looks not dissimilar to dating in the initial phases and that means I waste a lot of time trying to make a business connection that will never happen because business is not his goal and will never be on the table, no matter how I handle things.
  - thatcat 6y ago
    In my experience successful networking happens when you work on some minor project together successfully.
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      Thank you.
  - edmundsauto 6y ago
    That's a terrible experience, and one of the many reasons networking is hard. I suppose my perspective is that the grass is always greener. I have always assumed that I'd prefer the opportunity to pitch at a higher rate, versus a better qualified opportunity at a much lower rate. But that's probably a fallacy. Thank you for sharing your experience. I still don't feel bad for attractive people, since the outcome measurements clearly show it's advantageous, but the experience isn't something I'd considered prior to your comment.
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      I suppose my perspective is that the grass is always greener. Sometimes the grass is greener because of all the manure in the yard. I try hard to "count my blessings" and to figure out what's good about my situation. But the reality is I'm frequently broke, often to the point of going hungry, so I very much need to solve some questions concerning "How on Earth do you make money instead of being treated like slave labor?" (Because I get feedback that people benefit tremendously from information I share and things I do and they "value" it, they just don't want to pay me for it.)