4 ms·

It's my understanding that iCloud data will be handed over, because it's not encrypted. Is that correct?

by intopieces 6y ago

alfalfasprout 6y ago
Yep. That's the compromise. If you want full encryption don't use iCloud backups (instead using wifi backups).
- rubatuga 6y ago
  Or if you use Linux, you can use libimobiledevice! I use it to back up my iPhone to a ZFS drive with snapshots.
henriquez 6y ago
iCloud data is "encrypted" but Apple has the keys and can decrypt it. Apple has been wishy-washy and has actually backed away from announced plans to implement E2E encryption for iCloud with the DOJ whining about wanting backdoors every couple of years. Burr's previous support of encryption bans is ironic here; maybe now he wishes he hadn't made it politically impossible for Apple to protect his own data: https://www.wired.com/2016/04/senates-draft-encryption-bill-privacy-nightmare/ https://www.wired.com/2016/04/senates-draft-encryption-bill-...
- azinman2 6y ago
  I don’t think this is accurate at all. Edit: You can find details here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
  - henriquez 6y ago
    Here's the breakdown of iCloud's security: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Some features are E2E encrypted, but iCloud file storage is not.
  - jdillaaa 6y ago
    That's pretty accurate. Some stuff is encrypted with the device passcode like Health data and Keychain data. Around iOS 9 [1], Apple implemented some functionality to encrypt backups through a similar mechanism. This never panned out. 1) https://wccftech.com/ios-93-prompt-passcode-restoring-encrypted-icloud-backup/ https://wccftech.com/ios-93-prompt-passcode-restoring-encryp... Edit: as others have pointed out, looks like this never happened because the FBI said no.
    - SanchoPanda 6y ago
      An alternate explanation is that this never occurred because if people lose their passwords they would be completely out of luck.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    The link you posted supports the point you're claiming is not accurate. Only a few categories of iCloud data are end-to-end encrypted so that Apple cannot access them.
- adwi 6y ago
  With an unencrypted backup would investigators still need to compel the subject to reveal a credential in order to gain access to all the data, or is having the file enough? If so, would this also include information that Apple specifically calls out as end-to-end encrypted, such as iMessages?
clairity 6y ago
yes, apple had plans to encrypt it all (edit: without having access), but the FBI objected: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/01/21/apple-halted-icloud-encryption-plans-after-fbi-warningreport/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/01/21/appl...
- votepaunchy 6y ago
  Not everyone is willing to take Forbes speculation at face value: https://daringfireball.net/2020/01/reuters_report_on_apple_dropping_plan_for_encrypted_icloud_backups https://daringfireball.net/2020/01/reuters_report_on_apple_d...
bilbo0s 6y ago
>because it's not encrypted. Is that correct? You know what's so great about that!?!?! Senator Burr had a hand in forcing apple to not encrypt icloud backups! I'm sorry for my open Schadenfreude here, but I can't help feeling a little glee. I never realized how petty I am. But this is better than a tall, cold, delicious parfait on a hot summer day.

It's my understanding that iCloud data will be handed over, because it's not encrypted. Is that correct?

alfalfasprout 6y ago

Yep. That's the compromise. If you want full encryption don't use iCloud backups (instead using wifi backups).

rubatuga 6y ago
Or if you use Linux, you can use libimobiledevice! I use it to back up my iPhone to a ZFS drive with snapshots.

henriquez 6y ago

iCloud data is "encrypted" but Apple has the keys and can decrypt it. Apple has been wishy-washy and has actually backed away from announced plans to implement E2E encryption for iCloud with the DOJ whining about wanting backdoors every couple of years. Burr's previous support of encryption bans is ironic here; maybe now he wishes he hadn't made it politically impossible for Apple to protect his own data: https://www.wired.com/2016/04/senates-draft-encryption-bill-privacy-nightmare/ https://www.wired.com/2016/04/senates-draft-encryption-bill-...

azinman2 6y ago
I don’t think this is accurate at all. Edit: You can find details here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
- henriquez 6y ago
  Here's the breakdown of iCloud's security: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Some features are E2E encrypted, but iCloud file storage is not.
- jdillaaa 6y ago
  That's pretty accurate. Some stuff is encrypted with the device passcode like Health data and Keychain data. Around iOS 9 [1], Apple implemented some functionality to encrypt backups through a similar mechanism. This never panned out. 1) https://wccftech.com/ios-93-prompt-passcode-restoring-encrypted-icloud-backup/ https://wccftech.com/ios-93-prompt-passcode-restoring-encryp... Edit: as others have pointed out, looks like this never happened because the FBI said no.
  - SanchoPanda 6y ago
    An alternate explanation is that this never occurred because if people lose their passwords they would be completely out of luck.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  The link you posted supports the point you're claiming is not accurate. Only a few categories of iCloud data are end-to-end encrypted so that Apple cannot access them.
adwi 6y ago
With an unencrypted backup would investigators still need to compel the subject to reveal a credential in order to gain access to all the data, or is having the file enough? If so, would this also include information that Apple specifically calls out as end-to-end encrypted, such as iMessages?

clairity 6y ago

yes, apple had plans to encrypt it all (edit: without having access), but the FBI objected: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/01/21/apple-halted-icloud-encryption-plans-after-fbi-warningreport/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/01/21/appl...

votepaunchy 6y ago
Not everyone is willing to take Forbes speculation at face value: https://daringfireball.net/2020/01/reuters_report_on_apple_dropping_plan_for_encrypted_icloud_backups https://daringfireball.net/2020/01/reuters_report_on_apple_d...

bilbo0s 6y ago

>because it's not encrypted. Is that correct? You know what's so great about that!?!?! Senator Burr had a hand in forcing apple to not encrypt icloud backups! I'm sorry for my open Schadenfreude here, but I can't help feeling a little glee. I never realized how petty I am. But this is better than a tall, cold, delicious parfait on a hot summer day.