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This is a very broad term on this law. "prejudice against a particular group." So if I call Trump supporters "ignorant red necks and backward people," Will it

This is a very broad term on this law. "prejudice against a particular group." So if I call Trump supporters "ignorant red necks and backward people," Will it be considered Hate speech? Or when people say: "White people are <slurs> <negative adjective>" Will that be considered hate speech too? Disclaimer: I am a "protected" minority, but I am in favor of free speech. Even if what you say is ugly or garbage. PS. I consider downvotes here as offensive and "hate speech".

rstupek 6y ago
seems easy to consider those all hate speech
henearkr 6y ago
From what you can see in France or more broadly in Europe, the hate speech is only characterized when you really offend the minorities (or some persons belonging), and more specifically when you do so by yielding a kind of wanting-to-sound-objective argumentation to harm them. This is worse when you call to harm them. In your examples, which are clearly mere slurs, you do not try to sound objective in your bad depictions of them. In my experience of what can be seen in the news, your risk something more if you are telling, for example, "white people just damage all the books they touch in bookstores, because they never care how they handle them".
- superflit 6y ago
  Yes, But this broad "yielding a kind of wanting-to-sound-objective argumentation to harm them" is where the devil is. I can consider the downvotes "hate speech" because they were targeted at me as a "protected minority," and it does not consider my emotions. I felt very depressed about it, and HN did not make accommodations to make me feel safe expressing it without any prejudice. And I demand it to be removed. How about when people use master and slave names on Tech? -> http://antirez.com/news/122 http://antirez.com/news/122 I feel sick because of my past as a slave descendent. We can find offense and hate in anything if we care to look deep enough. It is more about "WHO" will be censored than about the message. Will it be used to repress science? News? What if News become "hate speech"? Or science?
  - henearkr 6y ago
    But the first example is just unspecific, and attributing the downvotes to some reason is difficult without real replies. And the example of master/slave is at most insensitivity, not at all hate speech. Hate speech is really more characterized than that. Besides true insults and slurs, those are for example the theories that make some minorities the cause of societal problems by blunt reasoning, often using abusive generalisations at each of their sentences... I understand your point though, and I agree, the law itself should be a lot more specific, explicitly.
    - superflit 6y ago
      "But the first example is just unspecific, and attributing the downvotes to some reason is difficult without real replies." That is hate speech, can you see? You can't see it because you are privileged. That is the reason only me as a "protected minority" can relate and say what is or not hate speech against us. You simply can't understand our life experience. --> by simple "twist" I can bend your intent and make you a hater Does the Law have space for replies? Don't think so. Who will decide a reply is good enough? "Besides true insults and slurs, those are for example the theories that make some minorities the cause of societal problems by blunt reasoning" I think it is more of "think about the children" slippery slope. You sell it about a "good excuse" then later abuse it. The countries that seems to implement it are doing it most in a way to curb criticism to some govt policies than protecting "groups". Then every criticism about govt policy is "hate speech". E.g: govt decides to give iPhones to X group. If you complain that will be "hate speech"? Again this is very lax and prone to abuse. We as good intended and polite can see it has to be more specific but the "govt" does not. Are we smart than people that make laws everydays? I don't think so. Then I rather not have it. Better hate people for what they think/say than for what they hide.
      - henearkr 6y ago
        Yes, but the point is whether the judge will buy that or not. There already is a crime of hate speech in France, and until now the tribunals do not fall in the traps of the kind of manipulation you emphasize. Of course I hope it will stay this way...
mydongle 6y ago
How can HN downvote such a man? I knew we were racist fascists all along...

rstupek 6y ago

seems easy to consider those all hate speech

henearkr 6y ago

From what you can see in France or more broadly in Europe, the hate speech is only characterized when you really offend the minorities (or some persons belonging), and more specifically when you do so by yielding a kind of wanting-to-sound-objective argumentation to harm them. This is worse when you call to harm them. In your examples, which are clearly mere slurs, you do not try to sound objective in your bad depictions of them. In my experience of what can be seen in the news, your risk something more if you are telling, for example, "white people just damage all the books they touch in bookstores, because they never care how they handle them".

superflit 6y ago
Yes, But this broad "yielding a kind of wanting-to-sound-objective argumentation to harm them" is where the devil is. I can consider the downvotes "hate speech" because they were targeted at me as a "protected minority," and it does not consider my emotions. I felt very depressed about it, and HN did not make accommodations to make me feel safe expressing it without any prejudice. And I demand it to be removed. How about when people use master and slave names on Tech? -> http://antirez.com/news/122 http://antirez.com/news/122 I feel sick because of my past as a slave descendent. We can find offense and hate in anything if we care to look deep enough. It is more about "WHO" will be censored than about the message. Will it be used to repress science? News? What if News become "hate speech"? Or science?
- henearkr 6y ago
  But the first example is just unspecific, and attributing the downvotes to some reason is difficult without real replies. And the example of master/slave is at most insensitivity, not at all hate speech. Hate speech is really more characterized than that. Besides true insults and slurs, those are for example the theories that make some minorities the cause of societal problems by blunt reasoning, often using abusive generalisations at each of their sentences... I understand your point though, and I agree, the law itself should be a lot more specific, explicitly.
  - superflit 6y ago
    "But the first example is just unspecific, and attributing the downvotes to some reason is difficult without real replies." That is hate speech, can you see? You can't see it because you are privileged. That is the reason only me as a "protected minority" can relate and say what is or not hate speech against us. You simply can't understand our life experience. --> by simple "twist" I can bend your intent and make you a hater Does the Law have space for replies? Don't think so. Who will decide a reply is good enough? "Besides true insults and slurs, those are for example the theories that make some minorities the cause of societal problems by blunt reasoning" I think it is more of "think about the children" slippery slope. You sell it about a "good excuse" then later abuse it. The countries that seems to implement it are doing it most in a way to curb criticism to some govt policies than protecting "groups". Then every criticism about govt policy is "hate speech". E.g: govt decides to give iPhones to X group. If you complain that will be "hate speech"? Again this is very lax and prone to abuse. We as good intended and polite can see it has to be more specific but the "govt" does not. Are we smart than people that make laws everydays? I don't think so. Then I rather not have it. Better hate people for what they think/say than for what they hide.
    - henearkr 6y ago
      Yes, but the point is whether the judge will buy that or not. There already is a crime of hate speech in France, and until now the tribunals do not fall in the traps of the kind of manipulation you emphasize. Of course I hope it will stay this way...

mydongle 6y ago

How can HN downvote such a man? I knew we were racist fascists all along...