5 ms·

Has been under discussion for some time: "Mark Liu, the chairman of TSMC, said he had recently discussed options for a new factory in the United States with the

Has been under discussion for some time: "Mark Liu, the chairman of TSMC, said he had recently discussed options for a new factory in the United States with the Commerce Department. The stumbling block was money; major subsidies would be required, he said, as it is more expensive to operate in America than Taiwan." (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/technology/pentagon-taiwan-tsmc-chipmaker.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/technology/pentagon-taiwa...)

magicsmoke 6y ago
What makes up the price differential?
- jandrese 6y ago
  Having to ship the raw material halfway across the world. More stringent environmental protections--fabs generate many tons of hazardous waste. Higher healthcare costs for the workers. Plus they use lots of water which is more expensive in Arizona.
  - magicsmoke 6y ago
    Considering how the low cost of shipping enabled globalization I doubt the shipping costs matter much. I'm also not sure if environmental protections are that much more stringent in the US than in Taiwan. Higher healthcare costs and water might make sense, but the bulk of the water cost in semiconductor manufacturing is probably due to the purification processes required than the volume of water used.
    - Kirby64 6y ago
      Shipping costs matter some when you go from being right next to the factory that makes your raw silicon wafers to having them be halfway around the world. In general it sounds like a big factor is cost - you've got to get talent that just doesn't exist (or isn't as widely available) in the US.
- devy 6y ago
  Employee salaries.
  - blueblisters 6y ago
    This is correct. Taiwan has a huge pool of silicon engineers and their salaries have roughly stayed stable over the years. Interestingly, because of this, a lot of engineers have been moving to China to seek greener pastures (make more money) [1]. [1] Taiwan’s brain drain: semiconductor engineers head to China, https://www.ft.com/content/6eab0c1c-167f-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385 https://www.ft.com/content/6eab0c1c-167f-11ea-9ee4-11f260415... Edit: Original article was Taiwan loses 3,000 chip engineers to 'Made in China 2025' (https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/Taiwan-loses-3-000-chip-engineers-to-Made-in-China-2025 https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/Taiwan-loses-3-0...)

magicsmoke 6y ago

What makes up the price differential?

jandrese 6y ago
Having to ship the raw material halfway across the world. More stringent environmental protections--fabs generate many tons of hazardous waste. Higher healthcare costs for the workers. Plus they use lots of water which is more expensive in Arizona.
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  Considering how the low cost of shipping enabled globalization I doubt the shipping costs matter much. I'm also not sure if environmental protections are that much more stringent in the US than in Taiwan. Higher healthcare costs and water might make sense, but the bulk of the water cost in semiconductor manufacturing is probably due to the purification processes required than the volume of water used.
  - Kirby64 6y ago
    Shipping costs matter some when you go from being right next to the factory that makes your raw silicon wafers to having them be halfway around the world. In general it sounds like a big factor is cost - you've got to get talent that just doesn't exist (or isn't as widely available) in the US.
devy 6y ago
Employee salaries.
- blueblisters 6y ago
  This is correct. Taiwan has a huge pool of silicon engineers and their salaries have roughly stayed stable over the years. Interestingly, because of this, a lot of engineers have been moving to China to seek greener pastures (make more money) [1]. [1] Taiwan’s brain drain: semiconductor engineers head to China, https://www.ft.com/content/6eab0c1c-167f-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385 https://www.ft.com/content/6eab0c1c-167f-11ea-9ee4-11f260415... Edit: Original article was Taiwan loses 3,000 chip engineers to 'Made in China 2025' (https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/Taiwan-loses-3-000-chip-engineers-to-Made-in-China-2025 https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/Taiwan-loses-3-0...)