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I mean, when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems, and that lidar is really expensive.

by gpm 7y ago

AsyncAwait 7y ago
> when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems What humans do 'just fine' isn't very relevant to self-driving tech. Humans balance just fine as well and yet the state of the art for robots is quite primitive. Airplanes also don't fly like birds. > lidar is really expensive Which, again, is somewhat separate to whether it is effective.
- aphextron 7y ago
  >Humans balance just fine as well and yet the state of the art for robots is quite primitive. That's the whole point. Full autonomy will never truly happen until computers can do what human brains can with regards to driving. No amount of sensor technology will make up for that fact. It's a software problem, not a hardware problem.
  - AsyncAwait 7y ago
    Sure. But that doesn't mean they have to do it the same way humans do, (same as airplanes don't emulate birds) - that is you can probably arrive at a similar outcome via multiple approaches, some quite different to how the human brain works.
- gpm 7y ago
  > Which, again, is somewhat separate to whether it is effective. Somewhat, but if lidar was really cheap it wouldn't really matter if it was also not-necessary.
  - AsyncAwait 7y ago
    Right, I just don't know we're far enough in to definitely say what is/isn't necessary at this point.
gamblor956 7y ago
Last I checked it cost more than a $100,000 (on average, in the US) to raise a human to the point where they have sufficient control over their behavior and body that they could be trusted to safely drive a several ton vehicle. Humans have the biology for visual systems, and constant training, and it still takes us almost a decade to fully process distance properly. (This is why children will run in front of moving vehicles--they can't actually tell how far away they vehicles are.)
three_seagrass 7y ago
I feel like the unbreakable window is somehow relevant here.

I mean, when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems, and that lidar is really expensive.

by gpm 7y ago

I mean, when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems, and that lidar is really expensive.

AsyncAwait 7y ago

> when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems What humans do 'just fine' isn't very relevant to self-driving tech. Humans balance just fine as well and yet the state of the art for robots is quite primitive. Airplanes also don't fly like birds. > lidar is really expensive Which, again, is somewhat separate to whether it is effective.

aphextron 7y ago
>Humans balance just fine as well and yet the state of the art for robots is quite primitive. That's the whole point. Full autonomy will never truly happen until computers can do what human brains can with regards to driving. No amount of sensor technology will make up for that fact. It's a software problem, not a hardware problem.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  Sure. But that doesn't mean they have to do it the same way humans do, (same as airplanes don't emulate birds) - that is you can probably arrive at a similar outcome via multiple approaches, some quite different to how the human brain works.
gpm 7y ago
> Which, again, is somewhat separate to whether it is effective. Somewhat, but if lidar was really cheap it wouldn't really matter if it was also not-necessary.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  Right, I just don't know we're far enough in to definitely say what is/isn't necessary at this point.

gamblor956 7y ago

Last I checked it cost more than a $100,000 (on average, in the US) to raise a human to the point where they have sufficient control over their behavior and body that they could be trusted to safely drive a several ton vehicle. Humans have the biology for visual systems, and constant training, and it still takes us almost a decade to fully process distance properly. (This is why children will run in front of moving vehicles--they can't actually tell how far away they vehicles are.)

three_seagrass 7y ago

I feel like the unbreakable window is somehow relevant here.